Front window wiring interconnected, or?

[MFE]

The other day I went inside the driver's front door of my 69 Continental sedan to lube the tracks, addressing a reluctant/sticky window. It worked great, the window works better than it has in the 3 years I've owned the car. The next day, I did the same for the passenger front window, and again, it worked great. I left all the windows down after that, and went for a drive. Later I raised all the windows, and driver's front window didn't work all. It doesn't seem like it's getting power.

Is this an *extremely* coincidental failure of the switch, or is there something about the passenger side wiring/connectors that can affect the operation of the driver's side window?

[TonyC]

If it's the driver's window that failed, it's a coincidence. The circuitry for the driver's window is not connected to anything else, save for the safety relay...but if that were the culprit, none of the windows would operate. The right-front main window is interconnected between its dedicated switch and the corresponding switch in the driver's panel, like old Christmas-tree lights: If one gives out, the whole circuit gives out. At least that irritating setup does not affect any of the other windows.

It's got to be bad contact in the switch or possibly a jam in the motor, both of which I've experienced with my own car. The first thing I'd suggest doing is to press and hold the master toggle in the "BYPASS" position and then try operating the window. More often than not, that has cured inop situations with my driver's window. If it doesn't, then try some blows to the door panel near the motor while holding the window switch in the position you need the window to move (i.e., up).

---Tony

[MFE]

Ahh, yes, the old Percussive Maintenance method. I'll give that a shot soon, thank you. Meanwhile I'm not familliar the "master" toggle, is that a thing on the '69's?

[TonyC]

Well, it's a term I use, to describe the transversely-placed toggle with "LOCK" and "BYPASS" labels on it. I'm sure you know what the "LOCK" positioning does. Very few people know what the "BYPASS" is for. I have posted a concise description of its purpose on another thread recently. To make a long story short, when you press and hold the toggle in that position, the normal keyed circuit is bypassed and direct battery power goes to the entire window system. While holding the toggle down you can operate any window from any switch without ever needing the ignition key. I learned that, more often than not, if there happened to be a glitch in the keyed circuit, the bypass helps to clear it out.

Yes, it's a thing for '69 models ... and '68s, '67s, '66s, and '65s. Before and after those years it did not exist. Cadillac used it also, about a year before Lincoln, and deleted it again a year before Lincoln. Why did they take it out? IDK for sure, but it was a huge mistake deleting that feature.

---Tony

[MFE]

OK, can anyone point me to which wires to test to direct-power the motor? I have the door panel off, but right now, with the connections re-established, if I toggle the driver's front switch, I hear a click in the door, but no movement. Note: I can't budge the glass by hand, not sure if that's normal or not.
I have a power probe, and working on the brown connector, I'm able to operate the back windows and on the white connector I can work the wing windows and that's it. None of the connections seems to power the front windows, but that may be beside the point. I want to direct-power the motor but I can't see which connector to probe. The diagrams I've seen are not helpful. Thanks!

[TonyC]

Well, if the panel is off, you can reach the motor wiring directly. In that year there are two wires, one red and one yellow, that go to the motor. They're both power wires, ground being supplied just by the motor's anchor points. One wire feeds power to cycle the motor downward, the other upward; I can't,however, remember which wire does which job.

If you are looking to test the motor, find its plug harness (which should be easy with the panel off), and unplug it. Then, locate a circuit that is hot all the time, and attach one end of a jumper wire to it (for this, a spare battery is ideal, but not even I keep a spare car battery; finding a perpetually-hot circuit in the car will suffice). Touch the other end of that wire to the ends in the motor plug one at a time, and see what happens. If the motor is fine, it will operate in at least one direction (should operate in both directions unless a wire is broken). If the motor does not operate at all in either direction, it's seized. If the latter is the case, the next step will be to tap it with a hammer (don't hit it hard, light taps are enough) and see if that will unseize the motor. If it does, then that means the motor is good, though it could use a degree of servicing (see below). If it doesn't, then the next step will be to remove the motor and bench-test it: Attach a ground wire somewhere onto the motor, then feed battery power to each wire in a way similar to what I just described above. Still no response? Take out the gear, then test again. Still no response? Replace the motor. If, however, it does respond, then it still is good. In that case, clean out all the old goo inside the gearhead (and the gear assembly), repack with new PTFE grease, reassemble, and test. It should be fine by this point.

Actually, removing the motor from the onset and clearing the goo out is prudent, especially if you don't know how old it is. Grease is also subject to the second law of thermodynamics, meaning it will break down with age as well as use. When it does, it becomes more like peanut butter than grease, effectively doing the opposite of what it's supposed to do. Cleaning the old goo out as thoroughly as possible and repacking with new PTFE grease will give an otherwise-good motor a new lease on life.

More often than not, window failures that people think may be attributed to a bad motor are not the case. The motor may still be good but will need servicing, which does not involve outright replacing. When window motors fail, they fail totally: They will not work at all in either direction. If it responds in even one direction, it is still usable after a bit of TLC, which costs less than an outright replacement.

---Tony

[MFE]

Thank you, I have my marching orders, but it'll be a few days.

[MFE]

Well, if the panel is off, you can reach the motor wiring directly. In that year there are two wires, one red and one yellow, that go to the motor. They're both power wires, ground being supplied just by the motor's anchor points. One wire feeds power to cycle the motor downward, the other upward; I can't,however, remember which wire does which job.

Here's the weird thing: WIth the switch connected, all the other windows work, and the motor for the one just clicks.

Disconnect the switch and probe the terminals with a Power Probe, the terminals for the back windows show continuity and will operate using the probe. The terminals for the wires to the LF motor don't show continuity no matter how I fiddle with them, and I can't make it click like it does with the switch when I use my probe.

The fusible link looks fine BTW.

If the motor does not operate at all in either direction, it's seized. If the latter is the case, the next step will be to tap it with a hammer (don't hit it hard, light taps are enough) and see if that will unseize the motor. If it does, then that means the motor is good, though it could use a degree of servicing (see below). If it doesn't, then the next step will be to remove the motor and bench-test it

Looks like the motor is coming out. Do you happen to have a template or illustration for where to drill access holes for the motor bolts so I can take it out without removing the entire assembly?

Thank you

[1Bad55Chevy]

Why would you not disassemble the entire mechanism to clean out the rock hard grease? Your post says you are from the Pheonix area, my wife's Mark spent its entire life on Pheonix and the grease was ROCK hard! Might be worth looking into.

[frasern]

Also, that dried grease may have contributed to the motor failure. A lot of people are nervous about the mechanism snapping them, but if you use a vice and watch what you're doing, it is really not that hard, we can talk you through it.

[TonyC]

Dittos to Fraser. The risk is not quite so elevated as many make it out to be; I know, because I've dealt with all four doors on Frankenstein. There is a risk of injury, but not necessarily amputation injury.

Looks like the motor is coming out. Do you happen to have a template or illustration for where to drill access holes for the motor bolts so I can take it out without removing the entire assembly?

I'm afraid not. I did my holes by pure guesswork, and I was still a bit off when it was done. However, that subject had been discussed here in the past, though not the recent past; I want to say that one of the vets gave guidance to drill access holes accurately.

---Tony

[MFE]

I didn't want to bother with removing the whole assembly because a) PITA and b) This is a driver, and the time involved for my schedule was going to cut into prime driving season in PHX, so Here's what I ended up doing.

I drilled holes to access the motor bolts and removed the motor. It “worked” when connected to the switch but I kept going anyway. With the motor removed, I could move the window in its tracks reasonably easily, so I was confident the problem was the motor.

I took the plate off the motor gearset and sure enough the main gear and other parts were FUBAR. Come to find out, the replacement gearset Dorman 747-412 is available for $15-30 and was an easy install. I didn’t need to cut the regulator, or splice any wires since I was putting the same motor back in place. Back in business cheap and easy. I call it a win.

[Lee]

That’s great information. I would not have guessed that so many Ford products 1964 - 98 used the same gearing.

[TonyC]

Indeed; but that is how it was. In a way that is good to have a readily-available and affordable repair option. Of course, I'm an advocate of making a repair permanent, and those crush-bushings are anything but. The Auveco gear assemblies were absolutely the best design of window gear ever, but they are no longer produced, leaving us with only the original option: Periodically replacing the crush-bushings in the motor's gearhead.

For anyone who may be new to these cars, here's how you know you need to address the gear as opposed to the whole motor: If you hear the motor run when you operate the switch but do not see the glass move, you need to repair the gearhead. If the motor runs in even one direction, it is not necessary to replace the whole motor; in fact, it's a waste of money unless you like to hoard spare parts like me.

---Tony