64 Jigsaw project

[Lee]

Ok, so it looks like the shoes you originally removed were for 58-60, and those had no self adjusters (which has always been a source of amazement to me, but that’s another post). The small holes held a spring that actually stretched over the star wheel, and kept it from backing off. It looks like this illustration:

The 61 and later design had self adjusters, and that hole is unnecessary. Here’s the basic later setup, albeit this illustration only shows a single backing plate hold down:

I’ll counsel you to check your backing plates where the shoes contact. If there are are significant grooves worn-in there, you’ll get “unusual” braking effects. Mine braked much better after I brazed up those divots and ground them smooth. I personally have also goofed-up the self adjuster orientation and primary/secondary shoes on the left and right sides, so double check your work before buttoning everything up.

[frasern]

Good catch Lee, that was my first thought, as my '62 Buick has manually adjusted brakes, and uses a similar spring, I'm not surprised '60 Lincoln brakes were manual. Tony, I should have most of that hardware, but I don't have the top red springs. The colour is important, as that is a code relating to the springs tension. But, if your car has that lower spring, it may have had all the self adjuster stuff removed, and I can send those parts for shipping cost.
And I agree with Lee about filling the wear grooves, I used a hard surfacing braze rod, if you can find it.

[Lee]

Good catch Lee, that was my first thought, as my '62 Buick has manually adjusted brakes, and uses a similar spring, I'm not surprised '60 Lincoln brakes were manual.

Fraser, I slightly misspoke. My 58 didn’t yet have self adjusters, but they were on 59 and 60. My amazement came from the fact that Mercury and Edsel in ‘58 had self adjustment, but Lincoln did not (it’s been a while since this thought crossed my mind).

The Motor’s chart below shows all the different brake systems used up until ‘62. Only #6, 8, and 17 were self adjusting designs. In general, Ford was several years ahead of Chrysler and GM in that area.

[frasern]

I'm actually a little surprised anyone had them in '58, I thought I had read somewhere that '61 was the first, but sometimes my memory fails me.
Anyway, some adjuster parts were changed in '63 which Mike and I were discussing in another thread, and the cables are a source of problems in '63, I don't know about '64. I have some NOS '61 cables, '63 were different, but I don't know what part # '64 used. By '66, they were back to the '61 part #, which is weird.

So, now I'm wondering, if that's why Tony's previous owner disabled the self adjusters?

[Lee]

Hmm. He did say he couldn’t find the self adjuster hardware, but I wasn’t clear on exactly how it was set up when he got it.

[frasern]

Hmmmm. If you zoom in on the star wheel, it looks like a manually adjusted one, the self adjusted ones should have angled teeth for ratcheting?

[TONY NZ 64]

Morning Lee,
Just to confirm my issue with the new brake shoes.
Photo below shows new and old, I have the end of the pink pencil pointing at the hole that is missing from the new shoe. Was planning on drilling it. Only other solution is to reline the old shoes . Hole is needed in both shoes for spring to attach to hold them together

[Lee]

Yeah, Tony. Like we were saying, it looks like the previous owner removed the self adjusting hardware. Your options are to buy the missing self adjuster parts, or drill the holes and have no self adjustment ( like 58 and earlier)

[TONY NZ 64]

WOW Lee and Fraser, you guys are a brilliant source of information. I have got the workshop manual and everyone says it is a must BUT this forum and the knowledge the members have are invaluable . Can't thank you enough. Especially living on other side of the globe.
I will take a photo of my star wheel. I was so silly not taking photos of the brakes when I pulled them apart. I have done so many and didn't see anything unusual so took no photos . I had to pull rears apart because right side siezed and I couldn't push car in the shed. Seem to remember pulling the front hubs off and was surprise to see shoes etc had been removed. I brought the car off a guy in Sacramento, he had done nothing to the car, he had brought it off a mate whose marriage had broken up and need cash. The mate was the one who was restoring the car. Hope that makes sense .
Thats for the offer of the adjustment hardware Fraser, may take you up on that. For now I will drill the extra holes and get car up and running with manual adjustment. My 70 roadrunner has drums and no manual adjustment up front.
I have wire wheeled the brake parts and repainted them. Original tension colour gone, Bugger, you live and learn.

[TONY NZ 64]

Star wheel

[Lee]

Yup. Those are for manual adjustment. The teeth are finer for automatic. You’ll need all the parts in this diagram, if/when you go automatic.

Oh, and in your earlier picture, the star wheel is flipped vs. the adjuster opening in the backing plate. Make sure you get them oriented correctly, and also with correct right and left hand threads.

[TONY NZ 64]

Awesome Lee.
I will stay with the manual system for now.
I am definitely the guy who gets his left and right confused.
Got my front backing plates off, worn only in 2 spots. Weld and grind them this afternoon.
Will check the rears after I get the engine in. Just have the drums on axel’s at present. Never took rear backing plates off, will weld groove’s up with them still attached, all going well.

[frasern]

Well, somehow my horde of brake hardware got wet, but here are some rusty parts.

At upper left are some NOS cables, not wet, for '61-'62, (C1SS) and one '63 (C3SS). It is hard to see, but the rusty one is a quarter inch shorter, The problem, is the Chinese suppliers are selling the long one and listing it as fitting all, whereas the later cars need a shorter cable, or it will fall off, causing untold damage when it does. From what I have found, the later cables have some yellow paint on the hook end, it is barely visible on this one.
On your car, front and rear brakes are the same, so If one wheel is intact, it will offer a guide for the rest. Let me know if you need any rusty adjusters, I have NOS levers and guides as well, but only that one short cable, you can have them for shipping cost.

I don't know why I can't seem to make a link stick anymore, but search " Source for 63 brake self adjusters"

[Mike]

Since my car is ways off from being driven I still haven't figured this out yet. From what I could tell something changed between 61-63 and only one one version of the parts is available and its all or nothing to make it work as intended. When I was trying to get it together most of the parts sources showed everything the same for those years but that's not the case.
Right now on mine the adjustes are pretty much all the way out and I think beyond the reach of the arms that move them. The cables were missing from all 4 wheels. I don't know if over the years the parts on mine have become a mix of the different years or if someone has also added parts from another vehicle ontop of that to make it work.
I was originally only in there to change wheel cylinders and the hose.

[TONY NZ 64]

Wow Fraser that is a great collection of parts.
At this stage I think the only part I am missing is a top shoe spring. The reason my right rear brake locked on was a spring snapped and the shoe jammed on the drum. I have got spare mopar ones somewhere so will search them out and see if they are correct length and tension.
Did the weld and grind to the backing plate today. Went great.
Decided to try assembly brakes off the car. Worked fantastic. Used wood clamp to hold shoes together. Cut a groove in the end of a steel bar and used as a tool to hook top springs on. Used vise grips so spring end started near end of bar.
All my adjusters are identical. Manual says there are left and rights, mine all lefts.
My backing plates are not 64 as the shoe holding springs are at the bottom half of the shoe.
Started bending my new brake lines but I need a 180 deg bender. One I borrowed is a 90 deg. Buy one tomorrow, $30 Kiwi.
Cheers