1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
- Lee
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
No, no. This is the tool you need. I guarantee the cables are long enough, it’ll work on any voltage, and will diagnose any problem you throw at it (limited to your ability to interpret the results, of course).
1930 A Coupe
1941 LC Coupe
1968 XR-7 (my great-grandfather’s)
1962 LC Sedan (owned 35 years & driven 100k+ myself)
1941 LC Coupe
1968 XR-7 (my great-grandfather’s)
1962 LC Sedan (owned 35 years & driven 100k+ myself)
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
I honestly don't know what any of that does.. I get the timing light and the dwell but nothing else..
Six years ago I bought my 3 bay shop (old Texaco service station) from the original owners son. The shop closed down in the late 90s when the old man decided to retire. Most of the old equipment was still in the shop when he handed me the keys. In there was a really big Sun Engine diagnostic machine like that and distributor testor. I sold them on FB Marketplace for $1500 since I had no idea how to use them or really what they even did (those don't hook up to OBDII ports). I even used the old Joyce in ground drive on lift for a few years but decided to retire it since it had no dead leg safety.
Six years ago I bought my 3 bay shop (old Texaco service station) from the original owners son. The shop closed down in the late 90s when the old man decided to retire. Most of the old equipment was still in the shop when he handed me the keys. In there was a really big Sun Engine diagnostic machine like that and distributor testor. I sold them on FB Marketplace for $1500 since I had no idea how to use them or really what they even did (those don't hook up to OBDII ports). I even used the old Joyce in ground drive on lift for a few years but decided to retire it since it had no dead leg safety.
55 Chevy 2 dr/ht pro street 427
71 Lincoln Mark iii
2004 Dodge Ram 1500 Rumble Bee #1168 of 4000
71 Lincoln Mark iii
2004 Dodge Ram 1500 Rumble Bee #1168 of 4000
- Lee
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
Yeah, the Sun machines were top line, but I’ve always lusted after one of the Ford dealer Rotunda units. Really, you got pretty good money…I bought mine for $20 about the same time period (about the time OBD was taking over). They generally seem to be increasing in value now.
The only feature you really can’t easily replace these days is the oscilloscope. I have never used mine often enough to become really proficient at interpreting the traces, usually I’ll use the “stacked” comparison of all 8 cylinders at once, and look to see if there are differences between them. That can tell you anything from an intake vacuum leak, a low compression cylinder, a worn point cam or distributor bushings, high resistance plug wire, fouled plug, leaky valve, failing condenser, etc, etc. Admittedly, it’s a bit like reading tea leaves, but there have been many thick books published just on this subject. One small example below.
Two cool features on this unit, is the ability to (temporarily) adjust the timing right from the gun while the engine is running. For cars like my 62 that only have timing marks on the damper out to 10 degrees, you can see (for just one example) when using a normal timing light if the vacuum advance is working, but you can’t tell exactly how many degrees you are getting. With this light, you apply vacuum to the can, and then use a little knob right on the light to dial the advance back to the static timing…and the number of degrees you dialed back appears on one of the panel dials. Same basic story with centrifugal. Not as accurate as a real distributor machine, but you also don’t have to pull it out to test it.
The other neat feature is the ability to kill one or more cylinders by pressing a button. Makes it easy to test cylinder to cylinder balance without shocking yourself pulling wires . Or you can (for another example) compare the RPM of running cylinders 1,4, 6 and 7, vs. 2,3, 5 and 8 (at least on a dual plane manifold) as a means of balancing the carburetor idle mixture screws.
At one time, reading a ‘scope was just standard tune up stuff, at least at the better shops. It certainly isn’t mandatory, and yes, they often run just fine with nothing more sophisticated than a matchbook cover to set the points, but I think it’s still a valuable tool for our old cars if you have the room.
The only feature you really can’t easily replace these days is the oscilloscope. I have never used mine often enough to become really proficient at interpreting the traces, usually I’ll use the “stacked” comparison of all 8 cylinders at once, and look to see if there are differences between them. That can tell you anything from an intake vacuum leak, a low compression cylinder, a worn point cam or distributor bushings, high resistance plug wire, fouled plug, leaky valve, failing condenser, etc, etc. Admittedly, it’s a bit like reading tea leaves, but there have been many thick books published just on this subject. One small example below.
Two cool features on this unit, is the ability to (temporarily) adjust the timing right from the gun while the engine is running. For cars like my 62 that only have timing marks on the damper out to 10 degrees, you can see (for just one example) when using a normal timing light if the vacuum advance is working, but you can’t tell exactly how many degrees you are getting. With this light, you apply vacuum to the can, and then use a little knob right on the light to dial the advance back to the static timing…and the number of degrees you dialed back appears on one of the panel dials. Same basic story with centrifugal. Not as accurate as a real distributor machine, but you also don’t have to pull it out to test it.
The other neat feature is the ability to kill one or more cylinders by pressing a button. Makes it easy to test cylinder to cylinder balance without shocking yourself pulling wires . Or you can (for another example) compare the RPM of running cylinders 1,4, 6 and 7, vs. 2,3, 5 and 8 (at least on a dual plane manifold) as a means of balancing the carburetor idle mixture screws.
At one time, reading a ‘scope was just standard tune up stuff, at least at the better shops. It certainly isn’t mandatory, and yes, they often run just fine with nothing more sophisticated than a matchbook cover to set the points, but I think it’s still a valuable tool for our old cars if you have the room.
1930 A Coupe
1941 LC Coupe
1968 XR-7 (my great-grandfather’s)
1962 LC Sedan (owned 35 years & driven 100k+ myself)
1941 LC Coupe
1968 XR-7 (my great-grandfather’s)
1962 LC Sedan (owned 35 years & driven 100k+ myself)
- RMAENV
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
At one time everyone had a match book in their pocket. Today, you are hard pressed to even find a matchbook.
Rob
1966 Lincoln Convertible (White/Black)
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
Thats because people switched from Marlboro Reds to vaping strawberry cheesecake... I miss America...
55 Chevy 2 dr/ht pro street 427
71 Lincoln Mark iii
2004 Dodge Ram 1500 Rumble Bee #1168 of 4000
71 Lincoln Mark iii
2004 Dodge Ram 1500 Rumble Bee #1168 of 4000
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
1Bad55Chevy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:30 am Thats because people switched from Marlboro Reds to vaping strawberry cheesecake... I miss America...
Dude !! I may just make that my new signature ..
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
Yeah. Why have just a nicotine addiction when you can also have lung cancer and/or emphysema?
The below links are mostly dead.
Dan Szwarc: 1966 Convertible
Shop Manual or MPCs available
Signature rules.
Help the forum for 2024.
Dan Szwarc: 1966 Convertible
Shop Manual or MPCs available
Signature rules.
Help the forum for 2024.
- My_49_Lucille
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
Hello guys, sorry for the delay in posting, but life has a way of getting in the way. I consider myself pretty mechanically inclined, or at least brave enough to make things worse ..lol
So next up after discovering the generator isn't working is my attempt to rebuild it. I figured, if I make it worse, I'll have to replace it anyway. So stay tuned, I should be able to start this mission next week.
So next up after discovering the generator isn't working is my attempt to rebuild it. I figured, if I make it worse, I'll have to replace it anyway. So stay tuned, I should be able to start this mission next week.
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
That sounds more like a dial back timing light that you're not adjusting the timing of the engine but adjusting the light itself to match the engine.Lee wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:03 pm
Two cool features on this unit, is the ability to (temporarily) adjust the timing right from the gun while the engine is running. For cars like my 62 that only have timing marks on the damper out to 10 degrees, you can see (for just one example) when using a normal timing light if the vacuum advance is working, but you can’t tell exactly how many degrees you are getting. With this light, you apply vacuum to the can, and then use a little knob right on the light to dial the advance back to the static timing…and the number of degrees you dialed back appears on one of the panel dials. Same basic story with centrifugal. Not as accurate as a real distributor machine, but you also don’t have to pull it out to test it.
Years ago when I had one of my older cars emission tested they had what was probably the newest of those pre OBD diagnostic machines. Just by hooking up the various leads to the car it could check everything from timing to compression and fuel ratio and did a print out of all the info. Sure beats doing it all by hand.
1963 Continental
2007 Crown Victoria LX
and a couple Chryslers and Cadillacs
2007 Crown Victoria LX
and a couple Chryslers and Cadillacs
- Lee
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
Yeah, that’s exactly what it does, and you can read the amount of dial-back on the analog dial…makes it possible to determine how much centrifugal/vacuum you have without trying to install a timing tape, etc.
1930 A Coupe
1941 LC Coupe
1968 XR-7 (my great-grandfather’s)
1962 LC Sedan (owned 35 years & driven 100k+ myself)
1941 LC Coupe
1968 XR-7 (my great-grandfather’s)
1962 LC Sedan (owned 35 years & driven 100k+ myself)
- tomo
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
Lee, you don't seem to have enough buttons to short out all of the cylinders on the car that you have the Sun Test unit connected to.
That looks like a very nice 41 Lincoln. I always have liked the 41 Continental the best.
That looks like a very nice 41 Lincoln. I always have liked the 41 Continental the best.
Tom O'Donnell
Palatine, IL
1953 Capri Sport Coupe
Palatine, IL
1953 Capri Sport Coupe
- Lee
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
Tom - yeah, good eye. Because the HV-12 has that 75 degree bank and uneven firing order, it has two independent ignition systems, each firing only 6 cylinders, so that’s the only way to treat it. The unit actually has the capability of scoping and parading up to 16 cylinders (if indeed there are any 16’s fed by a single coil…Marmon, maybe?), but if you want to short out any cylinder 9 - 16 in the firing order, you have to move the probe from wire #1 to #9.
Thanks for the compliment, but it’s really more of a 20 foot car, if you know what I mean. I too love the 39-41’s most, and feel they best embody Edsel’s sense of style. By the time the 42’s rolled out (my opinion only, no hate mail please), the front end was far too heavy in appearance. The delicate grille designed after the prow of a ship breaking waves, and the style that would gain it admission to MOMA in 1951…was gone.
Thanks for the compliment, but it’s really more of a 20 foot car, if you know what I mean. I too love the 39-41’s most, and feel they best embody Edsel’s sense of style. By the time the 42’s rolled out (my opinion only, no hate mail please), the front end was far too heavy in appearance. The delicate grille designed after the prow of a ship breaking waves, and the style that would gain it admission to MOMA in 1951…was gone.
1930 A Coupe
1941 LC Coupe
1968 XR-7 (my great-grandfather’s)
1962 LC Sedan (owned 35 years & driven 100k+ myself)
1941 LC Coupe
1968 XR-7 (my great-grandfather’s)
1962 LC Sedan (owned 35 years & driven 100k+ myself)
- My_49_Lucille
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
OFF WITH THE FENDERS
Well got to work on Lucille this weekend .. I was able to remove both fenders, locate the carburetor rebuild kit, remove the generator and get 3 feet closer to the engine bay on either side .. lol. I was also able to find the replacement bolts for the fenders, now I just need to find the clips that hold the bolts in place.
The next two projects coming up in the next couple of weeks is rebuilding the carb and rebuilding the generator.
Now after being in the depths of this vehicle I have discovered that while it is worthy of a restoration, it is going to cost me my life savings to restore it to its original condition. Therefore I have decided to restore it to a road worthy condition making her as reliable as possible. For me among other things that means converting it over to 12V. Now I have read that I can use the original generator set up and change the inner guts to 12V thereby retaining a more factory look. Do any of you know which was the first year that that style generator was used as a 12V? That way I can source the proper rebuild kit for it? I am not sure these are like tractor generators in that I may not have to change the guts, just change the voltage regulator as the generator will just work to that limit instead, or better said to the limit of the battery. Is this correct?
Also, I love that oil soaked air filter, this one seems to be in excellent condition, it appears to me though that the filter element was never meant to be replaced unless you bought the entire new cartridge. Anyone have that answer?
No doubt I know why this car weighs nearly 5500lbs, nothing is light, the fenders way about 40lbs a piece, the trim is not aluminum but steel and even the inner fender wells are all solid steel. Nit to beat a phrase to death, but they sure don't make them like they use to, LOL. Even the fender bolts have some heft to them.
Thank you
Well got to work on Lucille this weekend .. I was able to remove both fenders, locate the carburetor rebuild kit, remove the generator and get 3 feet closer to the engine bay on either side .. lol. I was also able to find the replacement bolts for the fenders, now I just need to find the clips that hold the bolts in place.
The next two projects coming up in the next couple of weeks is rebuilding the carb and rebuilding the generator.
Now after being in the depths of this vehicle I have discovered that while it is worthy of a restoration, it is going to cost me my life savings to restore it to its original condition. Therefore I have decided to restore it to a road worthy condition making her as reliable as possible. For me among other things that means converting it over to 12V. Now I have read that I can use the original generator set up and change the inner guts to 12V thereby retaining a more factory look. Do any of you know which was the first year that that style generator was used as a 12V? That way I can source the proper rebuild kit for it? I am not sure these are like tractor generators in that I may not have to change the guts, just change the voltage regulator as the generator will just work to that limit instead, or better said to the limit of the battery. Is this correct?
Also, I love that oil soaked air filter, this one seems to be in excellent condition, it appears to me though that the filter element was never meant to be replaced unless you bought the entire new cartridge. Anyone have that answer?
No doubt I know why this car weighs nearly 5500lbs, nothing is light, the fenders way about 40lbs a piece, the trim is not aluminum but steel and even the inner fender wells are all solid steel. Nit to beat a phrase to death, but they sure don't make them like they use to, LOL. Even the fender bolts have some heft to them.
Thank you
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- Lee
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
Just one man’s opinion: 12 volts does not automatically equal reliability. I run 6v on both my Model A and ‘41 LC, and experience no starting problems. If the wiring is marginal, 12v can be a bandaid, because it then only has to carry half the amps, but if you’ve got good, clean wiring connections, and big fat (at least 0 gage) starter cables, 6v is great, and you won’t have to change the generator, add resistors for the instruments, change all the bulbs, etc.
1930 A Coupe
1941 LC Coupe
1968 XR-7 (my great-grandfather’s)
1962 LC Sedan (owned 35 years & driven 100k+ myself)
1941 LC Coupe
1968 XR-7 (my great-grandfather’s)
1962 LC Sedan (owned 35 years & driven 100k+ myself)
- My_49_Lucille
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Re: 1949 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Sport 4dr Lucille
I'm starting to agree, there is no doubt that I am going to have to replace the wiring, but on this car that is marginal compared to others I have worked on. This will never be a concourse original car, but it is all there, original metal, until now, original motor, transmission etc .. That being said, I was going to go through the trouble of re routing electrical in order to make it look clean, but I am having trouble finding a good argument for changing it over to 12V other than a stereo, which is not the intended purpose of this car. The only change that was made was the change from + ground to - ground and this is more a safety thing IMO.
So having the rebuild kit for the 6V generator, I may just keep it that way. If later on it becomes a liability then I may re evaluate. Its no an easy choice, thats for sure.
So having the rebuild kit for the 6V generator, I may just keep it that way. If later on it becomes a liability then I may re evaluate. Its no an easy choice, thats for sure.
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