Hydraulic System for Deck Lid Issue - 1966

[Dannimtz]

Hi All

I replaced the value for the deck lid Hydraulic system and bled the system. I have cycled the rams many times (disconnected from the deck lid) and the passenger side ram operates much more slowly than the drivers side. Once the driver side is completely in or out the passenger side then extends or reacts at normal speed. I have tied connecting the rams to the deck lid and tried to operate the top without success - no movement in the deck lid. I also have swapped the rams (driver side to passenger side and vise versa) and cycled the system with the same issue on the passenger side ram still moving much more slowly than the driver side. I also put the old valve back in and had the same issue as I do with the new valve. Prior to the change of the value the rams worked fine. There is very little air - if any in the lines. I'm not sure what to try next. Any thoughts or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

thank you
Dan

[mge825y]

Hello Dan - What year is your Lincoln Continental convertible? Am I correct that you replaced the solenoid hydraulic valve for the deck lid and are now having problems with the rams moving up and down?

I recall when I replaced all 3 of the solenoids on my '63, the ones they make as replacements are larger and did not fit into the original metal mounting brackets. While I was trying to find larger metal mounting brackets, I learned that the solenoids must be mounted in metal brackets that are attached to the car so that the solenoids are grounded - or they will not work.

Could yours be a mount and ground issue?

[Dannimtz]

Hi Mark

Sorry should have motion the year - mine is 1966 and yes I replaced the valve and the rams move - the drive side moves as it should but the passenger side moves very slowly until the drive side is fully retracted or extended at which point the passenger side moves as it should.

thanks in advanced for the help

[mge825y]

Hi Mark

Sorry should have motion the year - mine is 1966 and yes I replaced the valve and the rams move - the drive side moves as it should but the passenger side moves very slowly until the drive side is fully retracted or extended at which point the passenger side moves as it should.

thanks in advanced for the help

Dan - I would wonder if there's an issue with air in the lines and that you may have to bleed them more. But I'll defer to others that may have had this same problem.

[frasern]

You say '66, but your picture shows a '65, they are very different. If a '66, it has a separate system for the deck lid, which will not affect the top.
It is common for hydraulics to move one at a time when disconnected from the load (deck lid). But they should still both move easily, if one is labouring, it may be that something has plugged, or pinched the line, when opened.
If the lid is going up as it should, and then the top won't kick in, that is a limit switch issue.

[RMAENV]

If you have a 66 you have 2 pumps. The one on the shelf under the package tray operates the Top only! The is a 2nd pump behind the side plastic cover in the trunk on the driver's side. Since the passenger cylinder is further from the pump, if you have a 66, I am guessing the pump is low on TYPE F (only) fluid. You fill it about 1"-1 1/2" below the top so when the trunk closes there is room for the returning fluid when the cylinders are depressed when the trunk closes.

[frasern]

I think I see what Rob is thinking, you may have worked on one system, then added fluid to the other. Both pumps have their own reservoir, both need to be full.

[Dannimtz]

Hi All

thank you for the replies. Yes I have a 66 and I do understand that there are two pumps. The deck lid pump on the drivers side by the rear wheel well is the pump that I replaced the valve on. The pump reservoir is about 3/4 full - around an inch below the top. No significant air in the lines - I've cycled the rams many times to force the air out of the lines. When I connect the rams to the top - they no longer move the deck down to the closed position. I don't think there is line issue - as I don't see any breaks/kinks in the lines. Also when the driver side is completely in/out, the passenger side moves correctly at normal speed. Not sure if this pointing to an issue with pump or rams - I'm guessing the pump since when I swapped the rams (installed the passenger side on the driver side and vise versa) the issue persisted. Any thoughts/help is very much appreciated.

thanks all.

[frasern]

Well then it sounds like a weak pump motor, however I would hate to spend $300 bucks without being sure. How clean was the fluid? you could try disconnecting 1 hose at a time from the cylinders and pumping fluid from each hose, through a clean rag. check for filings, all should flow at about the same rate.
You say you have tried 2 valves with the same results, but you can remove that valve altogether, along with 2 hoses, re attach, and test it that way, to eliminate that as the problem. The trunk lid will quickly bleed down, so do not cycle the top, just the pump in question, then return it to normal
The pump can be tested for pressure, but I don't know what it should be, and special fittings will likely be needed. The pump itself, is probably okay, but the motor may be weak, They are usually replaced as a unit, however, I took just the motor from mine to an electric motor rebuilder, and had it rebuilt for under $50.00.

[Dan Szwarc]

When I connect the rams to the top - they no longer move the deck down to the closed position.

Please describe your problem with more detail.

When you connect the rams to the DECKLID, they NO LONGER move the deck down to the closed position.

Does this mean the deck doesn't close or it doesn't completely close?

I'm going to guess that the deck closes (moves down) because the deck closes more easily than opens because of gravity.

Is the deck stopping part way?

Or is it closing 99%, but leaving the last INCH or so and not LOCKING? Does the pump continue to run or stop?

Locking is an aspect of the LOCK motor and deck screws NOT the deck pump. IF this is the case (and I'm guessing it is), then the problem is the DECK CLOSED switch, mounted on the passenger side near the screw receiver. Adjust it UP a tiny bit and try again.

The DECK CLOSED switch tells the pump to shut off and turns on the DECK LOCK relay/motor.

With the deck open exercise the DECK CLOSED switch plunger with your finger vigorously. Spray a little contact cleaner around the shaft and exercise the plunger numerous times. Observe the deck lamp for turning on and off.

Another way to test the switch is to push the plunger down firmly all the way while the deck is closing (just above half-way). The deck should stop and the screws should SCREW. This won't hurt anything. You can release the plunger and then continue to close or open the deck. If the pump stops but the screws do not screw, then the switch is faulty or the lock relay has failed or both.

Coincidence to your valve swap? Maybe. These old cars love attention and break on purpose when you try to fix one thing. They love attention.

[JCSLOCUM]

I think one of your rams/cylinders has a bad seal. The reason, one ram moved before the other, is that the leaking ram is bypassing fluid and cannot move with the normal flow/pressure provided. Once the one ram gets to the end of its stroke and needs no flow/or pressure, there is enough flow for the ram with the bad seal.

Once the weight and work of being attached to the rear deck lid, the leak in the ram doesn’t allow the system to build enough pressure to overcome the leak and move the deck lid.

I think you need new rams or resealed rams.

[Dan Szwarc]

No. The ram behavior is normal. The one furthest from the pump moves less until the closest one stops, then the pressure can move the other. If it has a bad seal, it would be leaking externally. One can't see this behavior when connected to the deck because they must move in tandem when connected to the deck.

Please provide feedback to my questions if you want answers.

[Dannimtz]

Well then it sounds like a weak pump motor, however I would hate to spend $300 bucks without being sure. How clean was the fluid? you could try disconnecting 1 hose at a time from the cylinders and pumping fluid from each hose, through a clean rag. check for filings, all should flow at about the same rate.
You say you have tried 2 valves with the same results, but you can remove that valve altogether, along with 2 hoses, re attach, and test it that way, to eliminate that as the problem. The trunk lid will quickly bleed down, so do not cycle the top, just the pump in question, then return it to normal
The pump can be tested for pressure, but I don't know what it should be, and special fittings will likely be needed. The pump itself, is probably okay, but the motor may be weak, They are usually replaced as a unit, however, I took just the motor from mine to an electric motor rebuilder, and had it rebuilt for under $50.00.

Hi Frasern - thank you for the reply. I completely replaced all the fluid with Type F so that shouldn't be the issue. I can't completely remove the value since I need it to connect the hoses. Also since the issue exists with the old and new valve I'm pretty sure that's not the issue. I'm thinking you may be right about the weak motor - the top did open and close a bit slowly before I replaced the valve. Thanks for the advice - very helpful.

[Dannimtz]

When I connect the rams to the top - they no longer move the deck down to the closed position.

Please describe your problem with more detail.

When you connect the rams to the DECKLID, they NO LONGER move the deck down to the closed position.

Does this mean the deck doesn't close or it doesn't completely close?

I'm going to guess that the deck closes (moves down) because the deck closes more easily than opens because of gravity.

Is the deck stopping part way?

Or is it closing 99%, but leaving the last INCH or so and not LOCKING? Does the pump continue to run or stop?

Coincidence to your valve swap? Maybe. These old cars love attention and break on purpose when you try to fix one thing. They love attention.

Hi Dan

Thank you for the advice. Yes the deck lid no longer closes when I connect the rams. It seems there is not enough pressure in the rams to move them when connected to the deck lid. No issues with the locking motor - it works fine. I think you maybe correct on the coincidence with the motor - maybe I just need to replace it? A you mention I don't think its the rams because I did swap their positions, and still, the ram on the passenger side worked very slowly - so it seems the only thing left can be the motor?

thanks again for the advice!

[frasern]

Are you saying the trunk lid will open but not fully close? Gravity alone should be enough to make it line up with the screws. If you push the trunk lid down, will it then lock?
Also, as I live in a farming province, I have tinkered with hydraulics a little. Dan is right, cylinders will never move in unison when disconnected. Only when tied together, will they work as one.