1962 lincoln convertable hydraulic pump stops intermittently

[Hani]

Hi team,

I am having a problem when opening and closing my roof where the hydraulic pump will just stop for 10 seconds and then start again. This morning it also happened when the trunk went up and down.
When it happens during the roof cycle, the solenoid stays open and the roof will sink which ever way its directing its weight towards until the pump starts up again and it goes back to normal.
When it happened to the deck lid, it just stops from moving.

I have just found that the previous owner has wired a relay into the top up relay but cannot figure out what wires go where as they do not match the manual colours.

Do you think the crappy relay job could (pic attached) be the intermittent issue?

Thanks in advance!

[defrang]

I replaced a few relays on mine with the telephone consult help of John Brewer (eBay store: Brewer Classic Lincoln?). This sounds like an intermittent relay problem vs an intermittent short to ground or bad connection.

[Hani]

Hi Robert, it's hard to contact and buy parts here in New Zealand so I'm hoping to confirm it's a relay issue and try and source a modern one to replace it. I agree it seems to be a relay problem, I'm hoping its not the internal breaker in the hydraulic motor that I keep reading about

[Dan Szwarc]

There is a thermal breaker inside the pump. If it is getting hot, it will stop. Carefully touch the bottom of the pump to check the temp before, during, and after using it.

Make sure your top mechanism is lubricated at the pivot points. High friction will increase the current needed.

[Hani]

There is a thermal breaker inside the pump. If it is getting hot, it will stop. Carefully touch the bottom of the pump to check the temp before, during, and after using it.

Make sure your top mechanism is lubricated at the pivot points. High friction will increase the current needed.

Cheers Dan, it's now happening when the pump is cold also. I've had a look at the manual and it looks as though the image I added has a modern relay bypassing the power point of the original relay. Could this be breaking the circuit?

[Dan Szwarc]

Relays don't tend to open due to heat. But you should look at where the power disconnect is occurring. The pump is driven by a relay, but that relay is fed by power from somewhere. See if you can verify where the 12V feed "stops" before it gets to the pump.

I'm not a 62 expert, but these convertibles are mostly the same (61-67). The schematics are total junk to understand as nothing is drawn logically.

When all else fails, call John Cashman or Jim Brewer.

[Dan Szwarc]

This should help you poke around. Follow the path of power for the mode/top position you are in.

[action]

To throw in a suggestion, the power side gets a lot of attention.

Don't forget the ground side. A bad ground will not trip a breaker. It will create slow to no operating of electric motors

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[Dan Szwarc]

The power side gets the attention because that’s the only side that’s measurable and traceable even through the motor, but something is breaking the circuit. It just has to be found.

[defrang]

My FYI story in case you find it helpful in your Lincoln restoration journey:

I marked the position of all the relays, then removed them. I found burn/arc marks on two and replaced them with ones I bought from John Brewers eBay store. I also found a metal bus bar that connects power in between the upper and lower bank of relays. It was cracked in half, so possibly intermittently shorting out. I replaced that also. John Brewer was invaluable in helping me over the phone. I bought a consult from John Brewer which he sells over eBay. Best money I spent on getting my top to operate flawlessly. Since those repairs (and with Brewers advice), I replaced all the hydraulic lines and pump with a kit from Hydro-E. The hydraulic solenoids I cleaned and tested, then replaced one of the three.

[action]

^^^^ And that kind of in depth repair likely makes a near retirement aged convertible act like a new car.

Over time it is usually not a single thing that becomes the problem. It's an accumulation of little issues that build up until that "one thing" stops the works.

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[George W]

Try temporarily connecting a simple 12 volt light bulb and socket with a couple of pigtail wires in parallel with the top pump motor. This can be done right at the motor’s connector plug pigtail. Just strip the bulb socket pigtails back about a half inch and slip the bare wires into the two sides of the motor’s wire connecting plug. Then reconnect the plug with the light socket attached. The bulb will then light when the motor is receiving power irrespective of the up or down direction. If the light stays lit but the pumps is not running you’ll know if the pump is bad but the wiring and relays are ok. It’s very possible that the pump’s motor brushes are simply worn down and are only making intermittent contact internally. Sometimes tapping the pump motor housing with a hammer or heavy tool while the motor is receiving power ( but not running ) will get the motor running again. A sign of worn down brushes.