57 Tbird question

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Stuart M. Cohen
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57 Tbird question

Post by Stuart M. Cohen »

So sometimes when we use the turn signals, we hear the click and sometimes we don't. I checked, and both the front and back turn signals work, as do the tail lights when the headlights are turned on. However, the brake lights don't work when the pedal is pressed.

I'm guessing the on again/off again clicking indicates the brake light switch it shot?
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by action »

Not that familiar with the brake light system on first gen Thunderbird.
And if it was like most of the other vehicles of the period, the brake light switch is pressure activated at the master cylinder by brake fluid. (Not a mechanical brake light switch)

If this is correct, if you hear anything inside the vehicle it will NOT be the brake light switch. As that switch is located in the engine compartment. And it is very doubtful you can hear it operate inside the vehicle.

However if the brake lights do not work, the switch could be the cause. So could -
-both bulbs burned out at the same time
-a bad ground
-some other wiring and/or connector concern
- not sure is a fuse is isolated to just the brake lights and as I stated above I am not that familiar with first gen Thunderbird-

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TonyC
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by TonyC »

If my own studies are correct, the Thunderbirds of that time used the same bulbs for brake and turn functions, meaning that burned-out bulbs or bad ground can be ruled out as the turn-signals work. I would say that the wiring to the brake switch or the switch itself is in need of attention. If a prior owner did some raping to the wiring, as many wannabe-customizers do (including me, admittedly), then that can make the diagnosis even harder...but not impossible if you have the original wiring schematics on hand, like in a shop manual.

Stu, just a quick request for clarification: Do the brake lights not operate at all, or only under certain circumstances, like when the headlights are on or the turn signals are activated? If it's the former, I'd focus on the switch (especially if you don't know how old it is) or the wiring to it and from it. If it's the latter, that can be an extra adventure to remedy. As for the sporadic absence of the clicking noise, I don't know what to tell you. That clicking is usually an intrinsic attribute of the flasher unit, to not only flash the lights but also to give an audible indication that they are flashing. If the signals flash properly even when the click is absent, then it's a mystery.

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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by Ken Stevens »

The switch, if it’s the same one used by Ford for everything, can be sourced from NAPA for like 12 bucks. Grab one and give it a shot. Short the two leads on the switch to see if the lights work. Eliminate other wiring problems
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by Stuart M. Cohen »

Brake lights don't work at all. The brake light switch is attached to the brake lines and the instructions on the Tbird sight recommend bleeding the brake lines after replacement.

Sounds like a job for my mechanic....
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by Mike »

You should be able check the switch by disconnecting the plug and putting a multimeter set to ohms across the switch. If it changes when the brakes are applied the switch works.
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by action »

Mike wrote:You should be able check the switch by disconnecting the plug and putting a multimeter set to ohms across the switch. If it changes when the brakes are applied the switch works.
That checks the switch.

Checking the rest of the wiring including the light bulbs requires a paper clip.
Remove the two wires to the brake light switch
Insert paper clip ends to connect the two wires that used to be connected to the brake light switch. (Caution do not let the bare paperclip touch any metal as this will create a short to ground. Which may violate my standard for a good day)
Check the tail lamps as the brake lights should be on now!!

>>>>>>>>>Action
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2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by Mike »

action wrote:
Mike wrote:You should be able check the switch by disconnecting the plug and putting a multimeter set to ohms across the switch. If it changes when the brakes are applied the switch works.
That checks the switch.

Checking the rest of the wiring including the light bulbs requires a paper clip.
Remove the two wires to the brake light switch
Insert paper clip ends to connect the two wires that used to be connected to the brake light switch. (Caution do not let the bare paperclip touch any metal as this will create a short to ground. Which may violate my standard for a good day)
Check the tail lamps as the brake lights should be on now!!

>>>>>>>>>Action
That saves on a meter. I mentioned the switch since that's the direction it seems to be going in. Either way both things are easy to check without mechanics involvement and if it's not one at fault it's the other.
A piece of wire with the ends stripped if you have it is safer then a paperclip.
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by Stuart M. Cohen »

The mechanical moron will attempt these tests....

Got a thingy that has a clip at one end of a wire that attaches to a pointy thing that lights up when the connection is made. Also have a meter to test the juice in a battery. Will get these two things when I get to the garage and try to figure it out.

Wish me luck
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by action »

Stuart M. Cohen wrote: Also have a meter to test the juice in a battery.

Wish me luck
What kind of juice?
Grape or apple?

Action
Phoenix - Yeah, it's hot, however it's a dry heat
2006 Lincoln Navigator Limited 5.4l 3V
1996 Lincoln Mark VIII 2DR Coupe Diamond Anniversary 4.6l DOHC, 4R70W, 3.07
1970 Continental Mark III Triple Black 460 4v, C6, 2.80 (Used for Woodward Dream Cruise or just generally stored in Michigan)
1966 Lincoln Continental 4DR Convertible 462 4v, C6, 3.00
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4DR Breezeway 410 4v, C6, 2.80
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by TonyC »

:lol: Personally, I prefer cranberry.

Yes, that thingie is called a test light. Try that; if the test light bulb comes on but the brake lights don't, try a second test using a piece of regular automotive wire, like Mike suggested, as it could be possible for the test light bulb to sap the energy that would otherwise go to the brake lights. Making sure that it's secured to both wires and not touching any other metal, then check the brake lights. You should not even have to press the pedal, as one wire is likely hot at all times and the other goes hot only when the switch completes the circuit when the pedal is pressed. Splicing that wire between the two will bypass that function, and the brake lights should be steadily on. If they are, then you know your wiring is okay, and it's the switch itself that needs replacing (and, of course, bleeding). If they aren't, then you have a wiring problem somewhere.

---Tony
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by Stuart M. Cohen »

Pineapple.
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by Stuart M. Cohen »

So I took a look at the Tbird today and found out that the engine needs to be running for the brake lights to work. Started the car, and everything worked. Put the key in the accessory position and the brake lights didn't work.

Who'd a thunk? :doh: :think:
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by Mike »

At least it was an easy fix :-D :smt005
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Re: 57 Tbird question

Post by Steve K »

That should not be the case. The brake lights should work even with the engine off. The fact that it works when running suggests to me a bad switch on the master cylinder. When the engine is running, you get enough vacuum assist to activate the switch. When it's not running, you don't. Imagine the scenario where you are driving along in traffic and the engine stalls. Your brake lights now fail and you get rear ended. No way it would have been engineered that way. Swap out that inexpensive switch and avoid disaster.
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