1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

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lincolnlarry
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by lincolnlarry »

Dan,

I am surprized your mileage is so low my 79 with all the emission stuff removed and
tweaking the timing just a little was getting 17mpg but I also did change the fan
it had no clutch and a big fiberglass 6 blade fan I used a mopar 4 blade and have
had no cooling problems

What I plan on doing is using an elect fan with a direct read flexolite adjustible
thermo switch this would get you at least 1 more mpg posable more drag from the
better pump

posible brake drag or a tight u joint any little drag will hit the mileage big time
I check this by sitting on just a little hill stop and than my car just starts
rolling all by itself a 5 to 10 degree hill very small.

I had my car out today after installing the new fuel pump and water neck and I
craked the secondairies open a half a dozen times and also started it 3 times over
the winter in my garage and let it run for 20 min each time, I went and filled it up
today and checked the mileage and it was 17.2 even with all the screwing around
I did over winter and driving like a nut.

One thing you may have done is go to big with the dual exhaust even the 383 440
road runners and chargers ran a 2 1/4 exhaust.

I wished you lived closer to me we could check your back pressure with a guage
just to see where your at, an exhaust system needs to do more than just flow
it needs to pulse for max scavaging

Try backing down on the meter spring with the #8 spring my plugs turned black
I think you just need to do a little more tunning on mine it seams to have just as
much if not more power on just the primaries, did you instal a spacer with 1 hole
and not 4 seporated holes this would defeat the purpose of the intake and would
hit the mileage.

As far as better atomization a spacer helps this the one guy said raising the fuel
pressure but you can not do that with a carb, I would check those floots the serge
you said you have and the bad mileage tells me something is not quit right there
mine is as smothe as glass at idle in gear or driving there should be no searge and
the MSD will not cause a serge I will also be putting a 6a on mine soon one thing
about the MSD with a hot MSD coil is they eat dist caps with the multi strike
spark 10 12,000 miles there bad I set up a lot of these systems and I sugjest
running a cheap auto zone cap this you will find out.

My dodge dakota there shot in 8,000 miles with the 48,000 volt coil I used to run
the better caps but it gets expensive

What gears do you have I am running the 2.47 rear around 1700rpm is 60 mph

What I would do is check the floots and gett rid of that serg than Ill bet the
mileage will go up oh ya one other thing I ran into with the eldebrock carbs is
sticky secondaires this will also hit mileage be sure they are closing all the way

Just some sugestions but if you can do the upgrade I am sure you will be able to
straghten this all out with a little experimentation like I said get the cheap $0.99
autolight plugs there are even plugs you can get for $0.78 and than get them a
nice tan color this is the best way to set up a carb but get rid of that serge first
that is not right at all

Are you running a 195 themostat a 180 running colder will also hit gas mileage, its
also posible you have some leaky valves take a compression test and see what
you come up with my motor has between 102 lowest and 110 highest all within
8 lbs

If its not raining tomorrow I will take a 100 mile trip with the lincoln and see howmy mileage is doing I was right at 22mpg last summer combined city high way Ill
break that down
city around 15%
back roads at 35 45 mph around 30%
highway around 50 to 60% at 60 65mph

Keep tunning I will not be happy untill you say your at least 18mpg

If you want you can send me a private email and I will give you my phone number
so we can descuss whats going on your mileage being so low makes me feel bad
it should be a lot better than 14 unless your just having a lot of fun with your
new found power from the old girl LOL that will do it every time

If I can help just let me know and by the way the radio is still working great I have
all the local oldies stations preset and have a ton of 8 track tapes from the
60's and 70's its great.

I will try and get back here as soon as I can to see what you find sounds like you
like the performance now you just need to get the mileage up, like a friend of mine
said to me just today who cares about the mileage when driving a car like that
well I do, he has a restored 94 cadilac he gets 18 19mpg high way and the fool
wanted to race me last summer boy did I blow him away he was not to happy LOL
also last summer my one nephew with a 96 sebring 3.5 V6 raced me and the
big old lincoln gave him a big surprize my speedo only goes to 85 I had it all the
way pointing straight down I figure it was around 110 120 mph at 4000rpm LOL
that was funny LOL

That big old lincoln will defenitly move

well its around 12.30 so I think its time for me to find my pillows LOL
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66Lincoupe
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by 66Lincoupe »

Not trying to sidetrack, Dan, but you mentioned higher indicated operating temps. Just out of curiosity is the sender in the same location relative to the thermostat and upper hose? I had a friend who changed an intake on a 302 and moved the sender from the thermostat housing to the manifold; the readings were higher on the factory gauge. He swore it was overheating, but never "boiled over". I put the old Thermostat housing back on and the sender back in the housing, the readings returned to "normal".

Just a thought.
Rob
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Dan Szwarc
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by Dan Szwarc »

Temp sender's in the same location.
lincolnlarry
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by lincolnlarry »

I check it with a thermo right in the coolent just above idle, at idle by the time
it reaches the cap side it was reading 165 170 it cooled that much going
from the hose side to the cap side.

At aprox 1000rpm it would read 192 so I guess my rad and system are working
very well

I have no guage in the car just an idiot light, I plan on instaling 3 guages, oil press,
coolent temp and a volt meter. summit racing has a nice electronic set of 3 that
light up blue and are smaller, I have the small sun super tack on the colum and
this set of guages would sit right above and to the left and only block the
fasten seat belt and door ajar light

I had the car out this sunday and lost my charging system, I had to order the alt
and it will be here tomorrow also replacing the regulator at the same time, I did
check the oil pressure with a anolog guage at idle 30 35 psi at 2000rpm just
above 50 psi this tells me the lower end is in good shape at 70,250 miles on the
car now. I drove 25 miles on just the batt so I am sure it hit the mileage so
I will have to refill again and do a test because I did give it full vack advance
now, I had to back off a little last summer when it was hot 80 90 out I was
getting some ping now I use mid range and have no ping yet

Just so you all know when a motor pings or pre detination you can lose from
20 to 30% of your power out put so ping is not a good thing

Dan did you find the serge problem with your setup I am still guessing the
floots are not matched to each other and this would cause a serge

One floot shut other open burns a little fuel out of bowl and than the floot opens
again while the other is still shut you really need to check that out they need to
be the same

I will try to get some pics up of the car my friend has a camera and will be here
this weekend

Man I love the Lincoln more every time I drive it, I wont even drive it in the rain
it hides in the garage on bad days LOL its a real babe
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Dan Szwarc
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by Dan Szwarc »

I will check the floats this weekend. I haven't been driving it lately. Took it to work today and I will add another 15 miles tonight for our club meeting.
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by Dan Szwarc »

I pulled the lid off the carb today and found the floats to be horribly out of adjustment. They were too low in the up position, too low in the down position, and uneven to boot. I also adjust the choke opening and the fast idle choke setting. Took the car for a test run and it was smoother than it had ever been. It drove quite well and idled pretty smoothly.

I still have to install the adjustable modulator and really go on a good long-distance trip.

Update 2: I pulled the vacuum line off the modulator to prepare to install the new, adjustable one and lo and behold, the one on the car IS adjustable! I gave it 3/4 turn clockwise and took it for another drive. (I'll be returning the new one and getting my $24 back tomorrow).

The results: delayed upshift into third until about 25mph at moderate throttle - works for me. The car stays in the lower gears just long enough. I also gave the kickdown adjustment one turn of the adjustment screw. My partial-to-full-throttle tests did not result in a satisfactory kickdown.

Tomorrow's weather is going to be dry and sunny so I will be driving it to work tomorrow. I'll provide another update soon.
lincolnlarry
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by lincolnlarry »

Dan,

That is a common problem with the edlebrock carbs new out of the box the
floats are set wrong this is why a lot of people have trouble tuning them
its vertualy imposible to tune them when the floats are off.

I take it that the serge is also gone now, I have instaled many 1406 carbs and
all but one the floats were off, I think they get thrown around a lot during
shipping because even edlebrock told me to check all of them when new

Another thing they told me when I had the off idle boog was to go right to the
#8 spring that did not work out well for me #4 stock all I had to do was go 1 up
to the #5 and that worked out very well, This carb was used and sitting on the
shelf in the shop and the guy I got it from told me it was junk and he could never
get it to work right so I replaced the needles and seats right from the start and
the float drop was off and 1 was set higher than the other

This is the first one I ever had to change the springs in all the others 1406 and
1407's it was just the floats being off

I have not had a chance to drive the Lincoln either the weather up here in
northern wisconsin has been terible raining almost every day and only in the
40's and 50's last sat we even had a light snow fall may 16th thats crap. I drove it
10 miles with the new alt and reg I also replaced the belts while I was doing it
and put the old ones in the trunk for spares for all I know they could be org
30 year old belts LOL not taking a chance on that

I have my chock set at 1 line to the lean and it seams to work perfict I used a
30 amp relay because on the 79 the choke wire only put out 8 volts but it
does turn the relay on and off and now I have a full 12 volt at the choke that
was one of my problems there I thought it was a full 12 volt but it was not and
opened slow.

I have my high idle at 1200rpm the next step down is about 800 and idle at
500rpm seams to work fine but every motor is a little diff.

I am planing on taking a trip with it this week some time to recheck the mileage
hopfuly nothing else goes wrong this time with a 30 year old car one never knows

My cruse control is funky it slowly speeds up all by itself I need to fix that look
down and before you know it your 15 20 miles over the limit good way to get a
ticket that I don't need
lincolnlarry
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by lincolnlarry »

:lol:

I had the Lincoln out friday and put 87 miles on it 1/2 highway at 55 60 mph
the other half was back roads at 35 40 mph than filled it up and it was 21.2
mpg than went on to drive it another 300 miles and refiled it at shell for
my wife to use to go to milwaukee for the weekend but did not check the
mileage that time.

I also found out why I was getting the piston ping, I bought gas mid range
at a midland station in a small town about 10 miles from my home, I filled the
car again at the same station and they were out of mid so I used premium
and the ping was gone with full vac advance.

My old lady took the car to milwaukee on sat after I refiled at a shell station
when I was at 1/4 tank running mid range fuel she got 21.8 with the car and
there is still no ping even with the 85 degree weather, driving around town
she said it was 17.5 after filling at a shell down there, and than filling again
the return trip in the rain she got 21.2.

She has fallen in love with the Lincoln now and is driving it all the time everywhere
she goes says it just does not compair at all to here 06 intrepid she has put
over 1000 miles on the car I am sitting at 71,980 miles now but it will be parked
at the first sine of snow no matter what.

Well I will never buy gas at that midland station again I will drive the 16 miles
to the shell station

according to her, its her car now LOL

Well I guuess I will be driving my dakota more often now or hide the keys and
get yelled at LOL
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Dan Szwarc
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by Dan Szwarc »

Sounds like Larry needs another Lincoln.
lincolnlarry
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by lincolnlarry »

Your right Dan, My Lincoln has been hi jacked LOL

I am keeping my eyes open for another that is in good shape and low miles
for her, I had a chance to buy a 1978 from the same guy for $1,200 but I
passed on it, I could kick myself for that I just wanted the one I got from him.

How was I to know she would fall in love with the car

It was a blue jubile model with a 460 actualy it was the wifes car of the man
who owned the 79 I have, from arizona no rust low miles 20/20 hine sight what
a fool I was for not buying it.

I need to get some pics up because I have never seen another quite like this one
coach style roof no opra windows in the rear it looks like a convertible, I even
have the org build sheet for this car and the owners manual things you never
get when you buy an older car that is nice to have.

Last week I used it to pull a trailer loaded with a 1968 IH cub cadet 147 garden
tractor in mint condition from the same guy he is selling every thing and the
property his father left him, the prop is worth between 3 to 4 millon in the 9
years this man has been dead his kids blew all the money and now have to sell
as I have seen many times the old folks die off and the kids just have fun untill
the money is gone its a shame a place that has been in there family for over
100 years

Anyway the Lincoln is puring like a little kitty and just loves to be driven my wife
has even given it a name calls it Mr Lincoln LOL

It now has just over 73,000 miles on it I need to hide the keys LOL
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Dan Szwarc
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by Dan Szwarc »

OK, Larry. Here's one for you. I need your expert advice.

I've gone about 500 miles on my new 4-barrel carb and I just checked the plugs.
Granted, the plugs were used and perfectly tan from the previous carb, but the results I have now are a little intriguing.
CIMG0002.jpg
Yes, it is half orange and half red.

My guess it is running a little rich.

In addition, the motor does burn oil... around a quart every 700 miles.

Suggestions?
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by Dan Szwarc »

Update: After a 360-mile trip across Michigan to the Auburn-Cord Duesenberg Museum and Kruse Auction near Fort Wayne, Indiana. I have mileage numbers for the trip.
Going out, averaging around 65mph, my mileage was 15.57 mpg.
Coming back, driving around 62-63 mph and not having to stay with a group, I got 16.63 when I filled it up at home.
Both tanks were premium fuel.

I checked the lone-plug and it appeared to be a nice tan color. I was hoping it was going to be black, requiring me to lean out the carb a little (for better mileage), but breaking 16mpg is pretty good. I plan on sticking to the 62mph limit for the trip to Lancaster this Wednesday and that is 500+ miles.

The car did not register any notable burning of oil as it still reads near the full line. Another good sign. By the way, it has 99,400+ miles now.
lincolnlarry
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by lincolnlarry »

Dan are you removing my posts
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by Dan Szwarc »

lincolnlarry wrote:Dan are you removing my posts
All posts between Sept 21 and Nov 1 were lost.
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lincolnlarry
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Re: 1977 400 gets a 4-barrel

Post by lincolnlarry »

Well it was just a spark plug test

Heres the resaults

The e3 is not worth the $6 price

The NGK Vpower at $2.50 each is worth the price they gave me around a 1 mpg
gain over the stock motocraft plugs along with more power that was noticable

#UR-45 NGK I am running now

I myself just got back on the net I droped my Laptop and the key board poped out
and just would not work after pluging it back in, now I have an external key board
and mouse to use it.

All my tunning software is on here for the SMT6 and the fuel tunners so I need
to get a new laptop for that now that sucks

Lincoln running very well Its full of gas and put away for the winter
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