Changing oil & filter on my 67...

[Lincoln1967]

I'm about to change oil, filter and pan gasket on the transmission... I guess it's a simple operation, but do I have to do other than drain the transmission, take off the pan, put new filter, put new gasket and replace the pan, and finally put fresh oil? Any other things, I have to be aware of?

One other thing; exactly what kind of ATF do I have to use for my 67 C6 transmission? What specifications does it have to have? I have some Dexron II... can I continue with this? And I see that someone discuss "F" and "FA"...ehm, what is this?

[TonyC]

NO!! Under NO circumstances use Dexron!! I'm glad you thought to post before you actually did that job!

If you need to open the transmission, you must use Type F or Type FA transmission fluid only--no other type at all, as a replacement or a mix. There are incompatible differences between Dexron and Type F formulas; using one where the other is to be used will be disastrous.

As for changing out the fluid, you don't really need to go through that messy scenario unless it's been more than 20 years since it's been changed. Type F transmissions were designed to transcend annual or semi-annual fluid changes. Although you can still get filters for your transmission (C-6s were different only in the shells and output shafts), you don't need to buy one. The filter is a metal screen which can be cleaned out; it's not like the paper elements used in modern cars that must be replaced with every semi-annual change. Then again, you do need to replace the gasket, and usually, filters and gaskets come in an all-inclusive kit...unless someone has a lower-priced listing for the gasket only.

If you were in the States, I'd recommend Wal-Mart to get the Type F fluid, since it's cheaper than any parts store. However, you should not have issues in finding Type F in Denmark, since I know that some European cars--Saab comes to mind first--should still use Type F (I know that Saab used Type F in the '80s).

---Tony

P.S. Considering that this may be a first-time adventure for you, I also must stress the critical importance of torque limits. You must follow the shop manual's torque specs to the letter when you're dealing with the filter and the pan. If you torque too much, either the pan bolts or the filter bolts, you will strip out the bolt threads or the casing threads and cause irreparable damage. Too little torque will cause the bolts to work themselves loose and cause problems as well. I can't remember exactly what the limits are; I have the shop manual so I don't have to remember. But, if you don't have one, say so; and someone here should guide you in the right direction (unfortunately, I'm a bit too far away from my own manual). Good luck!

[Dan Szwarc]

I have to mention that when my tranny was rebuilt, I asked what fluid I should use.

The response was "Dexron". The new plates and pads are designed for Dexron, not Type F.

So, the question becomes was your transmission rebuilt recently (last 10 years) and did they use Dexron at that time?

I will have to make a special "Use Dexron Fluid in Transmission" tag for my car an its future owners.

[67cab-dk]

I have to mention that when my tranny was rebuilt, I asked what fluid I should use.

The response was "Dexron". The new plates and pads are designed for Dexron, not Type F.

So, the question becomes was your transmission rebuilt recently (last 10 years) and did they use Dexron at that time?

I will have to make a special "Use Dexron Fluid in Transmission" tag for my car an its future owners.

dan
my transmission was rebuilt 3 year ago and I run on type F my transmission and when it is cold it having problem shifting up
can this be the type F oil ?
Tony
we do not have Wal-Mart here in denmark we have to pay the high price

Tommy
dit you get the correct filter ?

[Lincoln1967]

I'm rather sure that I've got the correct filter - it says it is for the C6 tranny... covering 20 years...

I've asked a company in Denmark what kind of oil I have to use. They say (and sell!) ATF146... I don't know if the tranny has been rebuilt... so I don't know if I can use Dexron or not... rather confusing How will I know?

As far as I can see there is no drain plug in the pan. I.e. the pan is the plug... The oil looks is fine red and clear; not black or smelly. The only reason why I need this operation is that the pan gasket has stopped working - causing a major leak in the garage floor...

I have a manual - I will find the torque requirements in this... thanks for the warning

Other question - when the tranny has been drained (not completely - I guess some oil will remain in pipes etc) - how much oil do I have to put? 5, 10, 15 quarters? Rather nice to know as the oil is fairly expensive in Denmark and I don't want to buy oil for the next 20 years...

[Dan Szwarc]

my transmission was rebuilt 3 year ago and I run on type F my transmission and when it is cold it having problem shifting up. Can this be the type F oil ?
Tony

I can't answer that. It almost sounds like your rebuilder skipped replacing an internal seal. If you are using Type F, continue to do so. You can't switch unless you use it from the start.

It's probably too late to ask your rebuilder about the cold shifting problem. It's probably out of warranty.

Tommy
dit you get the correct filter ?

C6 trannies use a stainless steel mesh filter that does not need to be replaced, but can be. The original can be cleaned easily.

I supposed one could try extracting or collecting a small sample of fluid from one's trans and then mixing a little with some Type F and another batch with Dexron III. See how well they mix. If they don't seem to mix well, then you should not use that combination in your trans.

Gary (KULTULZ), are you aware of any way of testing fluid to determine if it is Type F or Dexron? (I'm off to google it myself.)

[KULTULZ]

All of this has been discussed in the AT Forum-

OK...

TYPE F was not introduced until 1968. It was discontinued from use (by FORD) at and about 1980 (depending on trans type).

Before this change, all fluids were mineral-TYPE A-TYPE A SUFFIX A-DEXRON.

FORD went to an asbestos based friction material in 1968 requiring the new fluid. They ceased in 1981 due to fear of pollution-health and went back to DEXRON.

Rule of thumb- One may use TYPE F in a DEXRON application but not the other way around.

While the fluid may appear clean on the dipstick, what is laying in the pan is not. What is in the filter is not. Discard and use a new filter.

Dropping the pan will result usually in a four to five quart refill. You would have to drain the convertor to perform a full drain and a flush procedure to completely rid it of old oil/trash.

It needs to be serviced on a regular basis as just a drop and fill does not change all of the oil.

Questions?

[Lincoln1967]

Ehm, yes... now I'm more confused about what oil to use... But as I understand; Type F is a sure 'go'? As I don't know if my tranny has been rebuilt, exchanged etc....

I believe that my skills will be enough for removing the pan, changing the filter (I don't believe in 'everlasting' filters ), putting a new gasket and replace the pan...

But draining the convertor... is that an easy task? And a flushing procedure?

[KULTULZ]

All of this has been discussed in the AT Forum-

OK...

TYPE F was not introduced until 1968.

I forgot to add a very important point-

As pointed out earlier, FORD discontinued use of asbestos based organic friction materials in their transmission on or around 1980. Any TYPE F trans rebuilt after this period most likely used organic friction materials that suggested DEXRON useage. The only exceptions would be those (TYPE F applications) rebuilt using kits already in the dealer parts bins or someone using NOS kits. If one is unsure of whether the trans has been rebuilt using later tech (1968-1980), one can USE TYPE F even though DEXRON is recommeded for the rebuild. The TYPE F will most likely deliver a quicker and firmer shift. If you introduce DEXRON into a TYPE F application, trans failure will most likely follow.

Qusetions?

[KULTULZ]

Ehm, yes... now I'm more confused about what oil to use... But as I understand; Type F is a sure 'go'? As I don't know if my tranny has been rebuilt, exchanged etc....

I believe that my skills will be enough for removing the pan, changing the filter (I don't believe in 'everlasting' filters ), putting a new gasket and replace the pan...

But draining the convertor... is that an easy task? And a flushing procedure?

IF yours is a 1967 transmission (Check Assembly I.D.Tag) it used DEXRON. If the trans has been traded and not upgraded, it may need TYPE F.

ALSO REFER TO YOUR OWNERS MANUAL!

For convertor draining, you will need to refer to the Shop Manual for your car. A flush is an everyday procedure done here in the states. I am not sure if EUROPEAN tech uses this procedure (I am confident that they do). It will require a flush machine and an ample supply of the correct fluid.

Cruise-O-Matic I.D._2.gif

[Dan Szwarc]

If one is unsure of whether the trans has been rebuilt using later tech (1968-1980), one can USE TYPE F even though DEXRON is recommeded for the rebuild. The TYPE F will most likely deliver a quicker and firmer shift. If you introduce DEXRON into a TYPE F application, trans failure will most likely follow.

I think this is the information we needed here.

[KULTULZ]

If one is unsure of whether the trans has been rebuilt using later tech (1968-1980), one can USE TYPE F even though DEXRON is recommeded for the rebuild. The TYPE F will most likely deliver a quicker and firmer shift. If you introduce DEXRON into a TYPE F application, trans failure will most likely follow.

I think this is the information we needed here.

I think someone needs to weed through that ATF post ...

[Dan Szwarc]

It's pretty weedy.

[KULTULZ]

It's pretty weedy.

Had some good cat fights though...

[Lincoln1967]

Ok... now I have found two oils, which I believe can be used... as far as I can read these two oils have the same specs/qualities, only the name differs... Personally I prefer "76" for nostalgic reasons... in my first US car I only used these products . Local people has instructed me well how to drain the tranny & converter, so as much as possible oil can be drained, without tearing the tranny apart

So if anyone wants to advice me to use other oil; please let me know!



76 ATF Type F

76 ATF-Type F is recommended for service fill in all automatic
transmissions specifying a fluid meeting the requirements of
Ford Specification ESW-M2C33-F. It also is recommended for
use in many Borg-Warner automatic transmissions and Ford
power steering units. It also meets the performance requirements
for hydrostatic transmissions and hydraulic systems in
certain agricultural equipment specifying a John Deere J21A
fluid.

76 ATF-Type F is not recommended for use in GM, Chrysler or
certain Ford transmissions where DEXRON®-type, ATF+4®,
ATF+3®, MERCON®V or MERCON® fluids are specified.

76 ATF-Type F meets the requirements of:
• Ford ESW-M2C33-F (obsolete)
• John Deere J21A Hydrostatic Oil



Sunamatic 146.
 Specifications:
Ford M2C 33 F/G