How many actually still exist?

Any Lincoln fact related question can be posted here. Questions such as how many Contintenal convertibles were produced in MY1965? How much was the Town Car option in 1969? What size of tire was standard on a 1953 Premiere? or Does the Mark II retractible prototype still exist?

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LINC400
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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by LINC400 »

Barry Wolk wrote:I don't know, 15,000 is endangered? How so?

I would think that fewer is better, as far as value is concerned. :smt102 Each car that Dan, and others, part out make the remainder more valuable, yes?

IMO, the slab sides will never be rare and therefore not extremely valuable. Too many survivors. It is what keeps them affordable, though. It's the same problem with the Mark II. They are horribly undervalued. IMO that's because, of the 3,000 built, about 1,500 are still on the road and many hundreds still exist as parts cars. Compare those numbers to the hundreds of thousands of slab-sides made and you can see what I mean.
The logic of each one destroyed makes the remaining ones more valuable is the reasoning used by people that destroy antique cars in demolition derbies, on TV, and in movies. Since no one knows exactly how many are left, destroying or restoring a few will not raise or lower the value of the rest. It is simply an excuse to destroy a part of history. Hopefully people that part out cars are parting out vehicles beyond help in order to restore other cars.

Rare is one of the most ridiculously overused terms in the old car hobby. People like to think it affects value, but it really doesn't. A 1957 Chevy convertible is worth 3-4 times a slabside convertible. Yet there were over 40,000 produced for that year alone. One of the most ridiculous things I hear is "This muscle car is 1 of only 3 (or whatever) built". Sure, with that engine, with that transmission, that rear axle, in that color, with that color interior, and these options. However, there were 50,000 to 100,000 of that car built for the year.

If you take the Hemi out of an Imperial, and drop it in a Barracuda, the Barracuda will sell for a ridiculous amount of money as a "Hemi clone" touted as being "as nice as a true Hemi 'cuda, but a car that you can actually drive". Yet the Imperial with that engine, some models with less than 400 built, is not worth more than $25,000 at best. And of course it was a much more expensive, better built, and better appointed car than the 'cuda, not to mention more rare.
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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by menemshaman »

Hello all,

It has been awhile since I have posted on the Forum. This is an interesting question. I wish i could find the website where I found some info on this. Around five years ago I found some info that stated that of the 3,128 1963 Lincoln convertibles produced that year, only around 400 were still on the road. This is a very low percentage of under 13%. There must be many more sedans on the road considering the number produced. As I have stated I cannot validate this information but it would seem to be relevant considering the age and production run of the convertible.
I do know how a convertible can become junk. My father-in-law purchased a 1961 Lincoln convertible from a showroom in PA. He moved to Martha's Vineyard and owned it until 1968 when he sold it to a man in the adjoining town who happened to be a farmer. He used it to transport his sheep from one pasture to another! :shock: Their hoofs tore up the leather upholstery. The farmer then sold the car to the singer James Taylor's brother. Alex used it as an "island" car. He finally parked the convertible in back of his house where the top became torn, rain water filled the car and it supposedly broke in half :( I found this out when I asked his widow if I could look at the car for parts. She said she had it junked and the only item remaining was a tire rim. I can imagine that many of the Lincoln convertibles suffered the same kind of demise over the years.
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Dan Szwarc
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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by Dan Szwarc »

menemshaman wrote:I can imagine that many of the Lincoln convertibles suffered the same kind of demise over the years.
I hope not!
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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by AnthLinc »

A real number would be impossible but I would think that the survival rate is high. As far back as when I was in high school I tried to make a Lincoln convertible log consisting of all of the Lincolns that were in my area, at car shows or junk yards. After taking many pictures I gave up after realizing that the volume is much greater than I figured. Aside from parting out 3 66-67 verts there are at least 13 other Lincoln verts currently within my general area. It gets crazier. If I want to go to center city I pass a black/black 1961, white/black1966 and a white/burgandy 1964 all within a mile from my house. These cars are registered. If I want to go in the opposite direction I know of more hidden on back roads. Going to Plymouth meeting there is a blue/white 1966 behind Abington Hospital, Black/black1966 in Roxborough and Babyblue1966 in Bridgeport, Pa. There is a Black 1964 vert in a junk yard in Wrightstown Pa
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3806837

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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by JimFreeh »

Waaay back in 1974...
....I was looking for a nice 4 door convertible.

On average back then, a convertible was worth less than a hardtop, given the costs of keeping a good top on the car.
Most cars from the sixties were just old cars, and even early Mustangs could be had for a song.

For example:
I bought a 67 red convert 'Stang for $200 in 1975, and it had a freshly rebuilt engine. Had it painted and a new white top installed, and I drove it for several years, then sold it to my brother, who used it for a few more.... It was just another used car, albeit a somewhat cool used car...

My point is, I don't think average survival percentages really apply to the Lincoln convertible sedans.
Even back in 1974, when I bought my current car, the 4 door Lincoln was already considered a car worth saving, leading me to believe that the survival rate was much higher than average. Some cars, like the 40-48 Continental, and the 56-7 MK II, were recognized as something special rather early on, and didn't suffer the ignominy of neglect at near the same rate as more plebeian cars.

Now suicide slabside sedans.... Back then they were treated with the same respect a Lincoln Zephyr got in the fifties/sixties.... Basically they were considered as parts cars for the convertibles.

Just because something's rare, doesn't mean it's valuable, and just because something isn't rare, doesn't mean it's not valuable (say, 57 Chebbies).

Jim
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Dan Szwarc
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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by Dan Szwarc »

I despise people who purposely destroy cars in order to make theirs more valuable.

What I do is salvage what is left from a dead car so others can survive longer.
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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by AnthLinc »

I ment to add this sooner. There is a huge markert for destroying 1960's Lincolns and 60's chryslers on the demo derby circut. I found a web site dedicated just to inform others about how to rig these cars for a derby. What is alarming is that there was close to 90 pages with pictures, feedback and instructions. I got lost on that site. This will certainly lower the production of the sedan and coupe models. What was sad was many of these cars had nice bodies. On the other side these cars can't be enterened into a derby unless completely stripped. There is a good chance the parts are being sold for money to fund this crap. I bet this activity will thin the production dramatically. This angers me.

http://srt.suddenlaunch.com/index.cgi?b ... y&start=45
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3806837

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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by Dan Szwarc »

I can't see the demo derby market being very big.
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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by LINC400 »

Dan Szwarc wrote:I can't see the demo derby market being very big.
Guess again. It is a huge market with a huge following. Go on the internet and you will be amazed at the following. Take a look at Youtube. Many demo derbies in southern states and California regularly use 1960's and 1970's cars. With an average of 10 heats for a demo derby, even if there are only 4 cars out of 10 or 20 for a heat, that adds up to a lot of destroyed antiques for the day. Figure how many derbies for the season, and it really gets sad to think how many antique cars get destroyed every year. Many were nice cars before they got destroyed.
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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by TonyC »

Yes, I'd hate to see that. It'd make me sick--especially if a Lincoln was in there. I saw a '74 Continental in a junk yard here after it had been put in the crusher. Even though I'm not so big into the '70s as I am the '60s, my heart sank to see that.

But, there's another '74 in another junkyard that is still intact. Any takers?

---Tony
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Re: How many actually still exist?

Post by onedollarbob »

Another example of "rare" is not "valuable": the Mark VI I believe was only 11,000 units each year of '80-83. Recession, emissions controls, and downsizing really killed off this great car. I seem to remember the Mark V was 90,000 units in 1979 alone. Somebody fact check me here, but generally 5 times the Mark V's were made than Mark VI's. And in fewer years.

Yet it is obvious the Mark V will be (and already is) comparatively much more collectible than the Mark VI, even though the VI is a sturdier, much more luxurious, more advanced, and "rarer" vehicle. I mean, nothing tops the Allure fur carpeting they used in the designer/Signature option, or the digital dash, or the keyless entry (first introduced on the Mark VI and still a Ford-patented, FoMoCo-only option to this day).
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