66 Continental Brake System Investigation

[1Bad55Chevy]

If it's checked properly it won't get to the point that there slop in the steering wheel or abnormal tire wear or any other situation where there are parts flopping around ready to come loose. If someone let's their car get to that point that's neglect and sadly there's an awful lot of people who do that who think that as long as they change their oil every once in a while they're good. If its a part that wears it'll slow signs it needs to be replaced long before it becomes a problem.
When it needs it is how vehicles are maintained. Otherwise what, you're going to replace everything in the front end once a year because it can wear?
You replace psrts on a 60 year old vehicle when they've worn out and need to replaced just like any other age of car. Bulbs tires, shocks, springs, switches, wiring, brake lining, brake hoses, wiper blades etc etc etc all wear items. Most people don't wake up one day and randomly decide they're going to replace all that.

What I am getting at is the vast majority of DIY car guys have no idea how to actually check the suspension on their rides. People typically jack the vehicle up and support the undercarriage on jack stands the start looking for movement in worn out joints. The issue with that method is the suspension is at max travel so every component besides the steering system is in a bind and will not show any signs of wear. The answer from most is "I check mine on a jack with it supporting the lower a arm" that works for checking an upper ball joint but typically not on a lower because of the weight of the tire/spindle/brakes sitting in the lower ball joint. The jack method also dosen't allow you to check the control arm bushings because you can not push hard enough on the a arm when it supporting the weight of the vehicle.

The reality of these vehicles is they are 60 years old and there is no way to actually verify milage, maintenance, number of owners Or anything else that could be seen as relevant. Even extremely low mileage cars typically need the control arm bushings replaced due to dry rot. Even if they are not dry rotted the weight of the vehicle and the pressure of the spring will oblong the holes in the bushings and allow movement under cornering loads. Same goes with the dust boots and the 60 year old grease in all the joints. The only way to truly inspect all these items is to dismantle and visually inspect everything and if you tare it apart it's worth going back together with all new. I understand the shop manuals say different but those were written when these vehicles were new and replacing individual components was fine. In 2024 these vehicles need everything replaced since you typically have no idea of the maintenance records on the vehicle.

Maybe I am stupid on all of this but imo why wouldn't you spend the extra few hours taking everything apart, cleaning everything up, and shoot fresh paint on the pieces. When you start tearing into things you will be surprised of the issues you will find!

[1Bad55Chevy]

The only step I deviated from is #8. It is much easier in my opinion to just use a small air, or right angle grinder to whip the heads off the rivets.

Long barrel air hammer, that is the fastest method.

I use a HF "Chief" long barrel air hammer and it hits HARD! I have been thinking of upgrading to a snappy but they are pricey once you add in all the bits! There is a lot of buzz online about the "Big Nasty" made by ASTRO but I think that might be overkill for my needs since I don't buy things from rust states.

[Mike]

If it's checked properly it won't get to the point that there slop in the steering wheel or abnormal tire wear or any other situation where there are parts flopping around ready to come loose. If someone let's their car get to that point that's neglect and sadly there's an awful lot of people who do that who think that as long as they change their oil every once in a while they're good. If its a part that wears it'll slow signs it needs to be replaced long before it becomes a problem.
When it needs it is how vehicles are maintained. Otherwise what, you're going to replace everything in the front end once a year because it can wear?
You replace psrts on a 60 year old vehicle when they've worn out and need to replaced just like any other age of car. Bulbs tires, shocks, springs, switches, wiring, brake lining, brake hoses, wiper blades etc etc etc all wear items. Most people don't wake up one day and randomly decide they're going to replace all that.

What I am getting at is the vast majority of DIY car guys have no idea how to actually check the suspension on their rides. People typically jack the vehicle up and support the undercarriage on jack stands the start looking for movement in worn out joints. The issue with that method is the suspension is at max travel so every component besides the steering system is in a bind and will not show any signs of wear. The answer from most is "I check mine on a jack with it supporting the lower a arm" that works for checking an upper ball joint but typically not on a lower because of the weight of the tire/spindle/brakes sitting in the lower ball joint. The jack method also dosen't allow you to check the control arm bushings because you can not push hard enough on the a arm when it supporting the weight of the vehicle.

The reality of these vehicles is they are 60 years old and there is no way to actually verify milage, maintenance, number of owners Or anything else that could be seen as relevant. Even extremely low mileage cars typically need the control arm bushings replaced due to dry rot. Even if they are not dry rotted the weight of the vehicle and the pressure of the spring will oblong the holes in the bushings and allow movement under cornering loads. Same goes with the dust boots and the 60 year old grease in all the joints. The only way to truly inspect all these items is to dismantle and visually inspect everything and if you tare it apart it's worth going back together with all new. I understand the shop manuals say different but those were written when these vehicles were new and replacing individual components was fine. In 2024 these vehicles need everything replaced since you typically have no idea of the maintenance records on the vehicle.

Maybe I am stupid on all of this but imo why wouldn't you spend the extra few hours taking everything apart, cleaning everything up, and shoot fresh paint on the pieces. When you start tearing into things you will be surprised of the issues you will find!

It comes down to preference and what someone is trying to get out of it. If the front end is coming apart to replace all the dried out bushings and cleaning and painting everything in the process I agree I would probably replace the ball joints also especially if someone fought it apart with a pickle fork. At the very least I'd take a good hard look at them. But if someone isn't going through all that work there's no point to randomly start replacing parts that aren't needed. You could replace something that's perfectly good only have the new one wear out or come apart in no time because of the poor quality and material of parts these days.

[TonyC]

Honestly, I have to admit that I've had to do the everything route with Frankenstein, and my grand's Man-Of-War before (though with her car, the only suspension bushings I ever replaced were those on the strut rods, which are the easiest to do). But, I didn't do everything all at once; that is just economically impractical, especially for a then-active-duty buck-Sergeant. I did the whole front end over a period of years: Lower joints one year, tie rods and center link another year, critical suspension bushings another year, gear box spacers another year...all of which would likely have amounted to about $3g's of stuff had I tried to do it simultaneously. But, it was all eventually done, and with every new job I tackled I also went back to check jobs I had previously done to ensure they were holding up, tackling them again if needed. Most have never needed retackling, just follow-up lube maintenance; but I did do the outer tie rods, strut-rod bushings, and lower ball joints more than once over the years.

Oh, I just remembered, there is one thing I never replaced in Frankenstein's suspension: The idler arm. I do check it every time I have him up overhead, and so far it's held up; but I know it's as old as me. Remembering that part being one of the things that needed replacement on the Man-Of-War, and one of the parts the first shop claimed they could not acquire anywhere (all of which occured in 1990), I put in an order for a new one right before I left Kansas last year. So, I have a brand-new idler arm, ready to go on when it becomes necessary.

Speaking of lower ball joints...Mike, thank you for finding and posting that guidance!! Now I'll have proper reference material at last, should I ever have to do that job again...likely not on Frankenstein, unless another front-ending is in the cards for me; but with the 'vert the world still owes me that will likely be necessary. In fact, all of us will now have that guidance. Great detective work!

---Tony

[Mike]

Speaking of lower ball joints...Mike, thank you for finding and posting that guidance!! Now I'll have proper reference material at last, should I ever have to do that job again...likely not on Frankenstein, unless another front-ending is in the cards for me; but with the 'vert the world still owes me that will likely be necessary. In fact, all of us will now have that guidance. Great detective work!

---Tony

No problem! Combined with what Lee posted it makes some pretty good reference material.

[455hota]

A little more of an update, rear drums taken apart.
Driver side:

Passenger side:

This is the leaking driver side wheel cylinder. I can’t imagine why it’s leaking…

The passenger side was just as nasty as the driver’s side.
I picked up two chinese wheel cylinders from Autozone. And I ordered two rebuild kits. The rebuild kits are cheap. And I just like the challenge, so i will rebuild the bad ones and have some spares.

[Lee]

The experts say that brake fluid can absorb 2% of its weight in atmospheric moisture every year. Since yours appears to have never been flushed in 58 years, I’m calculating you are now at 116% water.

[frasern]

I have seen those wheel cylinders rust up like that after just a few years of disuse, it seems if you pump the brakes a couple of times a year, it helps, but still, anything that has been parked for a long sleep, will need this service.
I'm surprised you got the hard lines off, sometimes you need to pull the tube straight, and unscrew the cylinder. And if you use heat, it can blow the hose out, that vapour has to go somewhere! It looks like 4 anchor springs are too long, probably doesn't matter. I included 4 sets with that shipment, but I'll add a couple more.
Just a silly thing I sometimes do, after everything is cleaned up, I sometimes put a red or green dab of paint (Starboard and Port), on the parts that are side specific, as a visual "Failsafe". I know they are marked R or L, but that can be pretty hard to see.

[455hota]

I agree Fraser. I am very shocked that so far all the hard lines and come apart with a little PB Blaster. Only one took a bit of heat to persuade it to turn. So far all the hard lines will go back on, until i can get my shake down drive completed. Then we will prioritize new hard lines for brakes and fuel.

Wheel cylinder update pictured above.

[TonyC]

Might I suggest you apply anti-seize to not only the threads of the securing nuts, but also in between the nut and the line? It will prevent rust buildup from seizing the parts together and consequent damage to the hydraulic lines and nut corners, should you have to take them apart again. It looks like you did avoid that when you took the cylinders off...which was a huge stroke of good luck being on your side. Hardly ever does anyone, even me, luck out by not twisting hydraulic lines completely off.

---Tony

[455hota]

Yes Tony I am a firm believer in anti seize!!!
A wee bit goes a long way for sure!

I did order the three new flex hoses. The correct ones from Brake Hoses Unlimited. They are certainly not a discount price, however they are an excellent reproduction of the correct original flex lines and all special brackets. I used Brake Hoses Unlimited for my 67 TBird and the fit and quality were excellent!! I highly recommend them if you need flex hoses.

[1Bad55Chevy]

The scary part is the inside of the brake lines are equally as rusty..

[1Bad55Chevy]

Might I suggest you apply anti-seize to not only the threads of the securing nuts, but also in between the nut and the line? It will prevent rust buildup from seizing the parts together and consequent damage to the hydraulic lines and nut corners, should you have to take them apart again. It looks like you did avoid that when you took the cylinders off...which was a huge stroke of good luck being on your side. Hardly ever does anyone, even me, luck out by not twisting hydraulic lines completely off.

---Tony

Buy high end line wrenches (you can get Proto ones off Amazon for a real good price) you won't regret it. I am not much on high end tools but you would be really surprised how much more torque you can put on a high quality line wrench without damaging the nut.

[455hota]

1bad55chevy;
I am one step ahead of you!! A few years back i ponied up the cash and bought the complete set of line wrenches from Sears (Craftsman). My old ones were a cheap brand, and from the first moment you hels the Craftsman line wrench the difference was incredible. I have used these ever since. But with that said sometimes the Craftsman need a little help from PB Blaster and heat…

[455hota]

Today i removed the rotors and the splash shields. I cleaned up the bearings and there are in great condition. Races look fine as well. And the bearings say “Made in USA”!
The splash shields are in excellent shape
also. I plan to take the rotors to my local NAPA where they still can turn them down. I will have then cut the min. amount off to true them up.