66 67 68 69 Inside turn signal problem: SOLVED!

[action]

Both flashing modes operate off of relays.
Different relays

A relay has a control circuit and the power circuit.
If the control circuit was not working the lights would not come on at all.
There may be a lack of power coming to the relay or going out of the relay


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Dan Szwarc]

Bulbs aren’t the problem. Old wiring is.

[action]

+1 on that.

>>>>>>>>Action

[Dan Szwarc]

I must say, that is a really cool bypass to get the dash lights operating. I will try that when I get to the dash lights, but that is not the problem I'm having now. My current problem (elaborated in a separate thread) is with the outside lights, the four corners, flashing with a much dimmer intensity than they're supposed to, which must be a centralized cause within the turn-signal circuit. The four corners flash with the proper intensity in the hazard mode, a marked difference from the turn-signal mode; so that tells me the bulbs, sockets, and wires are not the cause of the problem.

---Tony

The failed relay you have passes all the bulb current, for either side.

If TS are dimmer than your brakes (same filaments, different circuit), then the relay could be the cause. It controls both sides. The flasher may also be the problem.

You need the relay coil (or a short) for my bypass (or any TS function) to work. It passes the 12V feed from the breaker.

[Dan Szwarc]

Both flashing modes operate off of relays.
Different relays

A relay has a control circuit and the power circuit.
If the control circuit was not working the lights would not come on at all.
There may be a lack of power coming to the relay or going out of the relay


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

This is true. Hazard doesn't use a relay, just a flasher.
For turn signals, there is a turn signal select relay (left or right) and the bulb out relay (which controls the inside indicators). It's primarily a pass-through. And, of course, the TS flasher does the switching.

Both pass through the TS switch because of the shared brake lamps.

[TonyC]

Yes, I thought there was something off about the earlier posting; I knew that the 1966 hazard circuit didn't have a relay in it. And, if it is bad wiring, then the bad wire must be in the dash somewhere, not in the outside wiring, otherwise the hazards would be affected as well.

Dan, to answer your question about the flasher: I swapped out flashers first thing, with no changes, save for the rate of flash. One of my flashers is an old, OEM unit, which I had in the hazard circuit and swapped to the turn signals; and the other is a newer, electronic flasher I got in O'Reilly several years ago, which I used in the turn signals and swapped to the hazards. The swap made no difference: The hazards still flash brighter than the turn signals, although faster than they did with the OEM flasher.

So, just to clarify, will your indicator-bypass surgical procedure still work and maybe aid the brightness of the outside turn signals? I intend to try that very soon, since I yanked out a bridge wire I had put in several years ago as a patch-up to get the left indicator working (I did that a few years before you came up with your current fix). I had jammed that wire between the left-front T/S wire in the wiring harness to the left indicator to get it to at least flash. I thought that might have been the contributor to the problem; it didn't make any difference.

---Tony

[Dan Szwarc]

So, just to clarify, will your indicator-bypass surgical procedure still work and maybe aid the brightness of the outside turn signals?
---Tony

No. It's only for the inside.

Try jumpering the fuse/CB that feeds the TS. If you have a brightness problem, its a single, common feed that is bad.

[TonyC]

Well, yesterday I went back to the auto shop to do a few small things on Frankenstein—namely, replace the alternator belts with brand-new ones, as the older ones seemed to be a bit on the floppy side, and check around for any fluid leaks. While there, I decided to dig into the fender to see about doing Dan's indicator fix. Then, I ran into a problem...

Digging into the wiring harness, I located almost everything Dan mentioned, except for the three-wire plug. I went though every bit of wire in that cluster, spraying off dirt buildup so I could ID the colors, and nowhere to be found was that plug. I found a squared-off four-wire, a five-wire, a bunch of seven- and eight-wire plugs, including the lavender one that was also involved, even a really odd-looking plug...but not the one that was the starting point for that surgery. I know it should be there, especially considering that my car is the same year as Dan's, but it wasn't; the picture below shows what I found. I'm wondering if there must have been some sort of change in the wiring between his car and mine, considering that mine is a couple months newer.

---Tony

[Dan Szwarc]

You are looking for this connector. You need to find the connector by tracing the wire colors.

The white with black line and the yellow line are the ones you need. You have to trace them back to the 8-way connector shown in the full schematic, but I don’t know the connector color.

You may have to peel back the black tape to locate the connector. Mine was all redone back in 2006 when I did the engine bay so we may have left it untaped.

The diagram doesn’t show the third wire going to th connector (big red wire). All I can say it is should be there unless they changed the wiring (mine is an early 66 built in November 1965 when the service manuals are published).

If it isn’t there, you have to find the wires themselves.

[Dan Szwarc]

Tony, look at my picture and trace the wires. See the RED, GREEN, PURPLE, and RED wires heading off to the right?

Dan’s pic showing the 3-way black connector

Now, look at your blurry picture. See the brown connector I circled in red? It seems to have the same four wires leading to it. Those wires head into the tape.

Tony’s pic showing the brown 8-way

Untape and locate. See if the two wires YELLOW and WHITE-BK go into the tape. Those lead to the 3-way black connector.

[TonyC]

Okay, then, I'll remember to do that next time I go into the auto shop. Maybe it is hidden inside the old tape; if it turns out not to be, then that will tell me the factory did do a wiring change. Thanks, Dan.

Sorry about the blur; I have several sharper shots, but they were more close-up and wouldn't have shown all the cluster that threw me off.

---Tony

[Dan Szwarc]

Any update, Tony?

[TonyC]

Sorry, Dan, no update to give yet. I haven't had the opportunity to go back to the auto shop to do more exploration, first because the shop adopted fewer hours of operation due to the scattering of the 1st Infantry Division all over the world, and second because of the cootie-scare that came down right after 1ID returned. The most I did was to replace the two turn-signal relays, which admittedly were both in need of replacing. That made for improved performance, but it's still not 100% perfect; there are times when the inside flashers will operate steadily like they're supposed to, and times they don't (at least now I know I can rule out relay malfunctions). But I am keeping your guidance in mind when I can go back to tinker some more on the circuits.

---Tony

[TonyC]

So sorry, I had forgotten that I had mentioned that problem on this thread! The problem was solved last year. There was something wonky in the right-front signal bucket; I still don't quite know what, but when I Dremeled the socket, added dielectric grease (not gobbed on, though, like the assembly lines do), and replaced the bulb (that even though the old bulb still had intact filaments), the turn-signal started flashing as brightly as it's supposed to, even with the marker-light circuit on. I've had no problems anymore with the turn signals not flashing brightly enough. I still have a problem with the left dash indicator not working most of the time, but the right one works every time now.

The brake lights, on the other hand, have still been a never-ending ordeal for me. I replaced the switch, again, with a new one a couple months ago when the old one started acting up and denying power to one side. The new switch still caused the same problem, because the hairpin bridge for the brake-light circuit was too loose, cutting off the power to the outside lights. Well, it was a CCU switch, go figure. I would've preferred a LL switch, but LL was out of stock with no projection of when that would be replenished; CCU's switch runs for twice the price and half the quality, but it was the only thing available. Knowing what I learned the hard way about soldering (specifically, not to do any soldering to that switch), I instead tried wrapping a strand of copper wiring around the brass tab and the hairpin to tighten up the connection. It's been two weeks since I did that, and so far the lights are working properly...so far. I still do a PMCS every day I use the car, to make sure they still work. At least I know one thing: If the rear lights flash with the hazard button pressed on, the brake lights are also working. Sometimes for good measure I'll place the tire iron between the seat edge and the pedal just to confirm what the hazard circuit has already told me.

---Tony

UPDATE 1, 17 June: A couple days ago I popped the hood and, while just staring at the inside of the bay, I was suddenly reminded that the relay cluster was soaked in transmission fluid. Part of that soaking came from when the pump was belching fluid up the fill tube (which has since been dealt with), and part came from a small-but-present leak at the rubber portion in one of the steering lines that goes over the brake booster (that still has to be dealt with). Of course, not having a relay cover doesn't help matters, either; I should add that to my this-year's list of want-to-buys. Anyway, also remembering that I had several cans of brake-clean spray, I sprayed the whole cluster down...and since then, the left-turn indicator on the dash has been working perfectly, as well as the right dash indicator. Who'd-a thunk, transmission fluid can interfere with electric current flow...?

Update 2, 25 August 2023: Today, the third anniversary of my run-in with the Reaper, I was going to the auto-skill center to do some undercarriage exams, when I had to abort because my turn signals went totally haywire. I went back home and spent about two or so hours opening-examining-cleaning the relays. I must say, they did need cleaning inside...but that was not the cause of the circuit failure. It was something much simpler: The flasher unit. I confirmed that by pulling the one out for the turn signals and swapping in the flasher for the hazards, and the signal circuit started working again. But, the shell of the hazard unit was badly damaged (no idea how), which meant I needed two replacement flasher units. I got them at O'Reilly, installed them, and now have to get used to the significantly-slower rate of flash when I flip the switch. But, on top.of fixing the main circuit, the dash indicators now work like new, even with the headlights on! I will admit, it had been quite some time since I replaced the flashers, because I never thought these new fancy-schmancy electronic flashers would fail. Note to Forum: They can fail.

Another thing that failed was the cam portion of that CCU turn-signal switch I bought only four months ago; the damn thing melted right at the brake wire. I tried a couple of aftermarket cams to fix it; the first one (made by Dorman) was a failure, but the second one, made by Shee-Mar, Inc., has held up quite well for the past three weeks. For a minute, with all the headaches I've had with turn-signal switches, I was afraid that was the reason for today's malfunction; thank God it wasn't. So, that's my latest: Fixed an odd malfunction, and the whole system operates like new now.

[Emas9420]

Sorry to revive an old thread but I've been having this issue with my signals.

My turn signals (outside the car) work fine. However, inside the dash they do not work.

One day I was in the glovebox and pressed the flasher button (I am assuming this is the hazard lights right?) and nothing happened so i left it at that and started driving. When I would step on the brake pedal both the interior turning signals would light up (not sure what would happen outside)..

then, if i would put the turning signal on (left or right - didn't matter) the dash right turning signal would light inside the car but on the outside all 4 (two fronts and two rear) would flash like hazard lights.

Also, i am assuming in the rear the turning signal are the same as the brake's right (at least, same bezel)? the ones at the bottom i am assuming are the reverse lights right?

What is happening? weird right? would this fix work for my issue? anyone know what could be happening? should the flasher button in the dash automatically turn the hazards on without me having to put a turn signal on right? If i didn't explain myself correctly i can send a video