66 67 68 69 Inside turn signal problem: SOLVED!

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ekm330
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by ekm330 »

Not to get John Cashman in the middle of things here, but I spoke with him several times while I was trying to figure out my turn signal issue. He hold me that if your interior turn signal indicators are not functioning or are malfunctioning, it was the relay under the hood in the cluster of relays near the master cylinder. So if Dan is saying that a car with a perfectly functioning relay can still have turn signal indicator issues, then I'm intrigued as to what he finds. I have been trying to identify the cause of why my right turn signal stops functioning when I step on the brake. By that I mean the front and rear lamps and flasher stall, including the TS indicator - they stall in the all on mode. All relays are good and all wiring is good, as far as not being frayed, corroded or hacked. I am completely stumped as to the cause.
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by ekm330 »

The flasher was replaced with a Heavy Duty flasher that Cashman suggested. It still does it.
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by Dan Szwarc »

ekm330 wrote:Not to get John Cashman in the middle of things here, but I spoke with him several times while I was trying to figure out my turn signal issue. He hold me that if your interior turn signal indicators are not functioning or are malfunctioning, it was the relay under the hood in the cluster of relays near the master cylinder.
He's right. But there are two relays involved, K1 and K2 (my designations).
So if Dan is saying that a car with a perfectly functioning relay can still have turn signal indicator issues, then I'm intrigued as to what he finds. I have been trying to identify the cause of why my right turn signal stops functioning when I step on the brake. By that I mean the front and rear lamps and flasher stall, including the TS indicator - they stall in the all on mode. All relays are good and all wiring is good, as far as not being frayed, corroded or hacked. I am completely stumped as to the cause.
This is a fun problem, but it sounds like a backfeed through the hazard switch.

Wiggle TS switch when you are holding the brakes with the TS on. Does it change?
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by ekm330 »

I connected up two different turn signal switches: one NOS and one new from LL. Still did it.

The power relay under the dash was rebuilt but not the one under the hood, since the inside indicators both function (except when you hit the brake with right signal engaged, then it whole system stalls, as mentioned)
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by TonyC »

Then it must be that relay. They are really tricky and can cause all sorts of oddball problems when they need attention.

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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by ekm330 »

TonyC wrote:Then it must be that relay. They are really tricky and can cause all sorts of oddball problems when they need attention.
Cashman told me that it wouldn't be the turn indicator relay causing my blinker stall issue, since that relay only affects the illumination of the turn signal indicators on the instrument panel. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to just have it rebuilt for gits and shiggles to absolutely rule out that component. Once I do that, I will have gone through all relays and TSS.
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by Dan Szwarc »

ekm330 wrote:Cashman told me that it wouldn't be the turn indicator relay causing my blinker stall issue, since that relay only affects the illumination of the turn signal indicators on the instrument panel. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to just have it rebuilt for gits and shiggles to absolutely rule out that component. Once I do that, I will have gone through all relays and TSS.
It's not the two relays.
Only the flasher is what makes the thing flash. But a short in the TS harness will cause it to backfeed and override the turn signals. I think you need to do a thorough inspection of the column wiring and look for a chafed wire.
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by ekm330 »

Perhaps I did not explain myself well enough when I stated that I had tried two other TSS's: an NOS one and a new one from LL. I unplugged the two TSS plug blocks for the switch that's currently in the column, so it was completely disconnected from the system. I, then, took the NOS TSS and plugged each wire into the appropriate plug on one of the two plug blocks under the dash, near the floor (which takes a contortionist to do to ensure each wire is plugged into the appropriate connector and none are touching each other or anything else). Then I engaged the turn signal. Left worked fine, hazard worked fine, but right stopped flashing when the brake was engaged - same as what would happen with the original TSS in situ. I then disconnected the NOS and plugged in all the wires from the new TSS from LL. Again, worked fine for left, and hazard but stalled for right when brake applied. No wires were running through the column, as I held the NOS and new TSS's in my hand for testing purposes, versus fishing them into the column for testing. So whether the TSS is in the column or I am holding two different switches, the same thing happens every time. Thus, it can't be an issue of the TSS or anything in the column.
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by ekm330 »

One more thing I just discovered. With the new TS plugged in, but not run through the column, the emergency flashers work until you step on the brake. Then the same thing happens as with the right turn signal engaged; all flashing stops and all lights stay in the "on" position. I havent tried this with the original TS still in the column, but I would assume it would do the same. So, not only do I have to find the cause of the right signal stalling with the brake engaged, I have to find out why the hazard flashers stop when the brake is engaged. I'll bet the culprit is the same cause for both, but I don't know what it could be :smt011
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by tsa »

From the schematics the stop lamp switch takes feed in and the other side goes into the turn signal switch via the green wire.
So when you step on the brake and the emergency turns off do all turn off (front and back) etc, also are the brake lights working when you step on the brake with emergency on? There is not much to the system, you have the turn signal switch, the flasher, and 2 relays. If all the lights work under normal operation you can basically rule out the wiring to the lights.

You can bypass the relays and flasher easily by jumpering them and then you have the switch. Get a multimeter and the test all the components of the switch etc. Also look at the pin connectors that the turn signal switch plugs into and confirm all the wiring in in the right spot etc etc

If you were close I would come round and work on it with you, but the 8000 odd miles makes it a bit hard
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by LC67Vert »

ekm330 wrote:One more thing I just discovered. With the new TS plugged in, but not run through the column, the emergency flashers work until you step on the brake. Then the same thing happens as with the right turn signal engaged; all flashing stops and all lights stay in the "on" position. :smt011
This is normal operation. My '67 has always done this.
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by TonyC »

He's right there--the brake overrides the hazard flasher.

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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by 66Lincoupe »

I am intrigued by Dan's pending solution. My interior turn indicator lamps worked as intended before I added sequential turn signals. After the addition of the sequential lamps the interior lamps would only illuminate when the last turn lamp illuminated. I have added an adjustable electronic flasher to slow the turn signals which allows the interior lamps to come on for a bit longer.

I am assuming that Rube Goldberg worked in the Lincoln division during this time period as everything is overly complex mechanically and electrically. :D
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Re: 66 & 67 Inside turn signal problem: Developing a solutio

Post by LithiumCobalt »

Dan,

Any updates on this project?
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