66 67 68 69 Inside turn signal problem: SOLVED!

[Dan Szwarc]

No updates yet. My recent western tour of 4800 miles revealed many more higher priority issues that have become my winter projects and the turn signal relay is now on the back burner.

[John Mc]

Yes I know this is an ancient thread, but until my 1970 wiring diagram arrives, can anyone say for sure that the turn signal dash indicators circuits run thru a relay?

[Dan Szwarc]

If you post the schematics or send me an email with them, I will be able to tell you what the problem is with your TSs, John.

[C1VF]

I know I'm re-resurrecting an old thread here...maybe I should have started a new one, but I have a simple question related directly to this subject:

I'm working on a 67 and after about 8 hours of frustration (including a bad replacement turn signal switch) I have the turn signal system 90% working.

Everything works except the right turn indicator on the dash, which points toward a problem with the turn indicator select relay (K2 in Dan's diagram at the beginning of this thread).

Biggest problem I have is...I can't find the relay.

Some say it's on the inner fender near the master cylinder, but in probing all the contacts on all the relays in that area with the turn signal on, the only relay that shows power pulsing on/off is the current sensing relay, which I have already repaired. So if it is one of those seven relays, I must have a broken wire or bad connection somewhere between the current sense relay and the indicator select relay.

Another drawing in the repair manual shows the turn indicator select relay as the 'warning indicator relay' which should be mounted behind the glove box next to the turn signal flasher. On the car I'm working on, there is a relay there, but it is a spst relay with a three wire plug which seems to be acting as an accessory power relay; and none of the three terminals on the plug are connected to the turn indicators.

So, would somebody please tell me with certainty, where is the turn indicator select relay on this 67? Does anybody have a map of those relays on the inner fender showing what each one is?

Thank you.

Joe G.

[TonyC]

Yes. You're looking for a three-wire relay in the engine bay, with the following colors for the wires: Orange/yellow stripe, white, and brown. There is also a warning-indicator relay located elsewhere (I suspect in the dash) with three wires--orange/yellow stripe, white, and blue. Got this out of the shop manual...but I think you already have been using schematics after reading your message again. '66 relays are a tad different from '67 because they changed the wiring around between the years; I learned that the hard way. But one thing I know is that the indicator relay is reversible--it switches polarity between left and right. And it's audible--you can hear it. If you can hear it on the left but not the right, then I suspect that the indicator relay may be stuck on one side, not reversing polarity like it should to switch between the left and right lights. That was Frankenstein's issue, which miraculously fixed itself.

---Tony

[Gerald F. Chase]

What I remember from "many moons ago" in speaking with Ron Baker, try the following to find the relay:

Park car; turn engine off, open hood, open driver's door or driver's door window. Turn key on, but do not start the engine. Turn the TSS to one direction.. and listen. Then turn it the opposite direction.. and listen. When "the system" is properly working, you'll hear a relay clicking in one TSS position BUT NOT THE OTHER.

This is because of the weird way the car was wired. But at least if you hear the clicking relay from under the hood, on the left inner fender, not far from the master cylinder & booster, leave it making the clicking noise and then track down the source of the clicking noise, using your hearing. Then you could put your finger on it to feel the clicking, confirming that such is indeed "the relay".

The rest is up to you guys. "Aren't old Lincolns FUN?"

[Dan Szwarc]

Looking back on this thread, I am sorry to announce that I have not tackled this project in the three years since I proposed it.

[TonyC]

No worry; I know how things can pop up out of the ether, becoming more immediate concerns and torpedoing plans. Keep it a goal, and one day you can make it happen.

Luckily, I don't need to mod anything anymore: All the lights miraculously began to work the way they were supposed to a year and a half ago, and they still do. So, no mods needed for me for now.

---Tony

[Dan Szwarc]

Success! I have a permanent (and reversible) fix for the inside indicator problem!

It took me several hours of schematic reading, car poking, prodding, and finally found it.

In simple terms, you have to adjust one connection and then add two wires that splice into two other wires. I have all the details documented, but will post them here as I have them so far.

STEP ONE:
Pull the left front wheel and remove the rear splash shield. Expose the wiring.
Near the engine side of the fender well, you should find a black three-way connector. Open it, and pivot its mate then reconnect it so only the RED WIRE is connected. The other two wires are feeds from the left and right turn signal lamps. You will use them.

Disconnect and pivot the black three way.

STEP TWO:
Locate the LAVENDER and GREEN eight-way connectors. You may have to disconnect the others to get them out of the way to make room to work. Use two right-angle needle nose to grip the two halves of the connectors and gently wiggle them apart. Disconnect the LAVENDER and GREEN connectors.

STEP THREE:
Remove the insulation from a small section of the BROWN wire on the LAVENDER connector as shown. Clean the wire as necessary. Repeat this on the GREEN-WHITE (striped) wire on the GREEN connector.

Strip away the insulation as shown on the brown wire. Repeat on the green-white wire.

STEP FOUR:
Connect the WHITE-BLACK (striped) wire from the three-way connector to the GREEN-WHITE wire of the green connector. Test your connections before making them permanent (Soldering, splice, crimp, tape, etc.).
To test, turn on ignition and then activate the turn signal lever in the direction in question. This is the LEFT turn signal.

STEP FIVE:
Connect the YELLOW wire from the three-way to the BROWN wire on the LAVENDER connector. This is the RIGHT turn signal.

Splice the YELLOW wire into the brown (ignore my blue patch wire’s Color)

If you goof the connections, flip them around at the three way. That's why I used a connector there.

Review:
You should have a wiring setup similar to what I show here. I have many bits of harness so I fabricated a two-way female harness to connect to the three way. The other ends are soldered to the appropriate wires.

End result

It IS possible to fabricate a simple jumper harness that users can just plug with without any soldering, cutting, etc. I have to draw it out and have it quoted. Hopefully, that won't take me 4 years to do!

How many people would pay for such a jumper harness and how much? If I get enough people to commit, I can get a quote for a mini-production run which will reduce everyone’s costs. It could be as much as $50-100, but you would just drop it in and not affect anything else.

This fix deactivates the bulb-out circuit. Your indicators will now show exactly what people see outside. You can switch to LED indicators inside if you wish. You can use LEDs outside if you switch to a three-wire flasher.

[LithiumCobalt]

Nice work, Dan. I may be interested simply to have one on hand. My dash indicators seem to be OK so far, so not an urgent matter for me.

[action]

Success! I have a permanent and reversible fix for the inside indicator problem!

It took me several hours of schematic reading, car poking, prodding, and finally found it.

In simple terms, you have to adjust one connection and then add two wires that splice into two other wires. I have all the details documented, but will post them here as I have them so far.

STEP ONE:
Pull the left front wheel and remove the rear splash shield. Expose the wiring.
Near the sidewalk, you should find a black three-way connector.

There are no sidewalks at my home. Do I have to drive my ride to a different neighborhood?

>>>>>>>>Action

[Dan Szwarc]

Corrected for clarity.

[Dan Szwarc]

Bumped for Tony

[Steve K]

Have you checked/changed any light bulbs? I have had bulbs fuse internally and cause wonkyness in the circuit.

[TonyC]

I must say, that is a really cool bypass to get the dash lights operating. I will try that when I get to the dash lights, but that is not the problem I'm having now. My current problem (elaborated in a separate thread) is with the outside lights, the four corners, flashing with a much dimmer intensity than they're supposed to, which must be a centralized cause within the turn-signal circuit. The four corners flash with the proper intensity in the hazard mode, a marked difference from the turn-signal mode; so that tells me the bulbs, sockets, and wires are not the cause of the problem.

---Tony