1965 power window conversion

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Tripspike
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1965 power window conversion

Post by Tripspike »

Hello,

I have nothing but problems with my 65 drivers' side front window. Have replaced the motor 3x now. All of the other windows work perfectly. I remember reading about a conversion using the '64 motor in a forum somewhere. Does anyone have any info or a link regarding this conversion? I have tried searching this site and on Google but have found nothing.

Thanks for help in this matter. I even had a Lincoln specialist work on the window and it worked great for about two weeks.

Trip
1965 Lincoln Continental
1965 Ford Falcon Restomod in Process
1963 Ford Falcon
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1960 Chevy Impala
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bd94s10
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Re: 1965 power window conversion

Post by bd94s10 »

I'll do some digging. I've spoken with John Cashman about it. He may still answer your question over the phone although he is retired. My buddy Tony "Boss" Bolin has done a couple of these conversions. I've thought about doing it in my '65 but the windows are still working great. Tony swears by not rolling the '65 windows all the way up.
Tripspike
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Re: 1965 power window conversion

Post by Tripspike »

I've tried that and was successful but that one time you forget and bam...
1965 Lincoln Continental
1965 Ford Falcon Restomod in Process
1963 Ford Falcon
1953 Ford F100
1960 Chevy Impala
2002 F350 7.3l Diesel Crew 8' Bed Pick Up
2005 Ford Expedition King Ranch
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TonyC
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Re: 1965 power window conversion

Post by TonyC »

Three motors, eh...? That tells me the motors are not the cause of the problem. A long time ago, original guru Ron Baker spoke of such a problem affecting that year...in fact, both years of that subseries. The problem according to him was the regulator, the scissor-arm assembly, for the front doors. He said both front doors had that issue (although it is very possible that only one door will suffer symptoms). Due to a design flaw at the factory, the front window regulators would tend to bind up after a long-enough period of use (like 25, 30 years or more), causing the windows to jam mid-travel. Consequences ranged from burned-out motors to rips in the doors' sheet-metal, where the regulators were secured. After examining where the bind would occur, he reproduced those regulators, taking out the flaw in the original design, and sold them. I don't know how many he sold, however, as that problem never occurred with my grand's car or my own. Now he's long gone, and Baker's Auto is gone...which means a possible upgrade for the windows of those years is gone.

Anyway, that's my own theory on your problem: Your regulator on that side has that design flaw, presuming that you never had it taken out (i.e., factory piece). So many people are quick to blame motors for window troubles when they aren't to blame, and three motor replacements ought to be an indicator that the blame is misplaced.

---Tony
(not Jason's Tony)
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1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
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Diniakos
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Re: 1965 power window conversion

Post by Diniakos »

Hey TonyC, looks like you might be able to answer a question that I have with my 65 passenger front door. The motor spins freely, but the window seems to be off the track. I looked inside and everything is where it is supposed to be, but I can pull the window up and it falls right back down. I assume it is the regulator gear, but before I buy, does that sound about right?
Past: Sancha 1.0 - 1961 Lincoln Continental Sedan 430ci MEL saved from a junk yard in East LA, DIY restoration (mainly stock) and sold to help pay bills (Biggest Regret)
Current: Sancha 2.0 - 1965 Lincoln Continental Sedan 430ci MEL 2nd owner, modified with big Detroit Steel Wheels, White Walls, and Jamco Lowering kit (Still miss 1.0)
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TonyC
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Re: 1965 power window conversion

Post by TonyC »

That's exactly right, Diniakos; the gear in your window motor has shredded. You need to buy a new gear. Note that you do not buy a whole new motor; I stress that because too many people misdiagnose window problems being caused by bad motors, which more often than not is not the case. The gear is a separate piece, inside the motor, yes, but designed to be removed and replaced without replacing the whole motor (although the motor does have to be removed to replace the gear, then re-installed). A new gear is much cheaper than a whole motor, and it will cure your problem.

If you're lucky to find a supplier of Auveco 17974 gears, pictured below, I highly recommend going with that. It's superior to any original factory design; you will never have gear problems again. It can be tricky finding vendors that still offer them; for some inexplicable reason they are an endangered species now (probably because they work). Just search for options, and go with the first, best deal you can. One more thing: You also need to shop for a supply of PTFE grease; the old grease inside the motor's gearhead has most likely deteriorated with age, turning into a texture of peanut butter, effectively doing exactly opposite of what it's supposed to do. When you pull out the old gear, clean out the head thoroughly, pack new grease into the head, insert the gear, pack a little more grease into the gear, then re-assemble and re-install. As long as your window regulator is still operating properly, that will cure your window problem. You may be able to find PTFE grease at local part stores, so check there first.

---Tony
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Shot 1, Auveco 17974 Gear
Shot 1, Auveco 17974 Gear
Shot 2, Auveco 17974 Gear
Shot 2, Auveco 17974 Gear
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
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Diniakos
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Re: 1965 power window conversion

Post by Diniakos »

Thanks so much for that intel. Quick follow up, I do have a shop manual, but you know how hard they are to read sometimes. Is it possible to remove the motor while keeping the rest in the car? I don't want to deal with the amputation issues that I have heard so much about. Also, my back window goes down slow and barely creeps back up. I wonder if it is just the grease inside the motor of that one that is gummed up
Past: Sancha 1.0 - 1961 Lincoln Continental Sedan 430ci MEL saved from a junk yard in East LA, DIY restoration (mainly stock) and sold to help pay bills (Biggest Regret)
Current: Sancha 2.0 - 1965 Lincoln Continental Sedan 430ci MEL 2nd owner, modified with big Detroit Steel Wheels, White Walls, and Jamco Lowering kit (Still miss 1.0)
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TonyC
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Re: 1965 power window conversion

Post by TonyC »

I think the amputation scares are a bit inflated. Yes, it can smart if the regulator drops on your arm; I know from experience. But I've never been in danger of losing an arm. As long as you're aware of the hazard at all times and work carefully, your limbs will survive the day. Now, to remove the motor without removing the regulator in the process...unless you're lucky and a prior owner had holes drilled into the door metal in alignment with the screw heads that hold the motor in place, it won't be that easy. You can either try drilling access holes to reach the screws (which is very tricky because you'd have to be perfectly lined up with the screw heads for that to be a practical workaround), or bite the bullet and adhere to the shop manual's guidance of removing the regulator to get to the motor. Unfortunately, the factory did not think of making motor access easy back then.

If the '65 rear windows are supposed to behave the same as '66, then yes, a sluggish move is a bad sign; they (well, mine, at least) are supposed to move faster and smoother than the front ones. That certainly sounds very suspiciously like peanut butter in the motor (used to be grease 57 years ago, but not now). Taking out the motor, removing the gear, thoroughly cleaning out the gluey goo, and repacking with new PTFE grease ought to cure the problem. There is a catch, however: Removing a rear-window motor is even harder than removing a front-window motor. It's doable, especially if said car is not your sole means of motorized conveyance; but I advise taking it slowly and steadily. If the car has overhead cover (garage, carport) you don't need to rush it the first time around.

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
frasern
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Re: 1965 power window conversion

Post by frasern »

The grease on the regulator pivot is just as dry. Best to remove it, clean and regrease it and all the sliders.
If you can, hold the whole thing in a vice and clamp the free arm, remove the motor. then unwind the spring by releasing the free arm slowly. take note of the spring position, it will go back in 4 positions, but only one will work.
Be prepared for the other window gears to be worn and fall apart, when you try to regrease them.
Fraser Noble, Western Canada
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TonyC
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Re: 1965 power window conversion

Post by TonyC »

Fraser's right; I should have mentioned that in my last post as well. The same thing has happened to the grease on the regulator and related rails: It's also peanut butter and needs to come off. Thoroughly clean off every part that moves, then apply new PTFE grease. Because those parts have more exposure to air than the motor gear, it may be harder to do a thorough cleaning. But it is doable; some in the past recommended using Easy-Off to clean the rails and regulator.

---Tony
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, just because there is a picture with a quote next to it." (Abraham Lincoln, 1866)
"Question Authority!"

1966 Continental Sedan, affectionately known as "Frankenstein" until body restoration is done (to be renamed "General Sherman" on that event)
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